Anyone had any dealings with a ST170 engine? I know it will mate with a type 9 box, I think with a 1.8 zetec flywheel? What mods are necessary to the sump ect?
That will wake ratbags up! The exhaust is on the opposite side to the pinto.
Yes Dave I have previously. Basically a zetec with vvc. You can run standard with a modded zetec sump or either lock the vvc and use carbs or tbs with aftermarket ecu or emerald ecu can now control the vvc. All the zetec bits pretty much fit.
What I was toying with was to buy a complete running ST170 and use everything from it, so all standard as far as possible. Things I have to change, like sump flywheel, clutch, mountings, brackets ect ect, I would like to list and source if possible. Once the engine is in, things like plumbing and exhaust would be completed as necc'. Opinions?
Sounds like an interesting project. I don't know anything ST170's but I imagine that Ratbag would fly with one if you can make it fit. You'll have to get on track to really enjoy it though!
Ditch the flywheel and clutch. It's a dual mass job and useless. Use a flywheel from a 1.8 zetec and then depending on your gearbox either zetec clutch or pinto clutch or combination of two. Sumps - you can buy modded for about £150. Release bearing needs to Capri ct133, and you need to fit a spigot bearing in the end of the crank, easy to do just taps in existing hole. A quick Google search will find you the bits but retroford is a good source for all the bits.
Then you are into plumbing up and away you go. You will need a fuel injection pump and return line if ragbag currently runs carbs?
I have a type 9 Sierra box in right now, I heard I may need to mod to use a clutch cable?
The tank I have in could be a bit bigger I think, so thought maybe an ally one to suit the fuel system.
My MoT runs out in 2 days and tax at the end of march, so it's sort of make my mind up time. I can get an ST170 for about £500 and there should be enough stuff I won't use to sell on to make it more sensible. We are approaching the time of year where doing it is more feasable for me(in the open)
I'll have a look at retroford, see what they got.
One thing I forgot Dave is the water pump - you will need an idler pulley next to it to run the pump off the back face of the belt - easy enough to fabricate from a scrap pulley or again you can buy a kit - it is basically same install as blacktop zetec.
If you run the oem ecu you might need to keep the key. There is quite a bit on locostbuilders on using them oem ecu and wiring.
Yes this is the idea of getting a complete car so I would have every thing to hand, key, wiring ect. The waterpump idler is to make the pump run in the correct direction?
Didn't find a sump on retroford, they seem to be more into escorts, capris ect.
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/351670433379
This is the kind of thing you are after at the locost end. Alternatively raceline and the like do them for mega money.
I ran a modified silvertop sump on a St170 block for 20k miles with no issues despite the scare mongering about them needing additional wind age trays etc.
Although the one I had did have baffles to stop oil surge.
Quote from: sanzomat on 07, March, 2016, 01:50:18 PM
Sounds like an interesting project. I don't know anything ST170's but I imagine that Ratbag would fly with one if you can make it fit. You'll have to get on track to really enjoy it though!
It would definitely fly! The ST170 Focus is no slouch itself as far as tin top hatches go.
Go on, you know you want to... ;)
Quote from: benchmark51 on 07, March, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
Yes this is the idea of getting a complete car so I would have every thing to hand, key, wiring ect. The waterpump idler is to make the pump run in the correct direction?
Didn't find a sump on retroford, they seem to be more into escorts, capris ect.
If you need a sump modifying Dave Stu is your man.
Quote from: damouk on 07, March, 2016, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 07, March, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
Yes this is the idea of getting a complete car so I would have every thing to hand, key, wiring ect. The waterpump idler is to make the pump run in the correct direction?
Didn't find a sump on retroford, they seem to be more into escorts, capris ect.
If you need a sump modifying Dave Stu is your man.
who dat? I don't know him do I? Will need such a sump though. ;)
Yep you do, he is the guy who came down with me from Gloucester to the club meet
Think I know who you mean now, Whats his forum name? I'll contact him and ask. :D
He's Fidodido Dave
I'm still looking for a ST170, but no luck yet. I am considering a 2L zetec as well now. One thing I want to avoid is any 'submarines' from the recent flood areas. Which is a reason for a complete car, so I can drive it first.
Id hold out for the st170 dave if you are going to do a swap, from what I've seen the zetec donors arnt much cheaper
I am pretty sure the ST170 engine is a Zetec despite the dummy Duratec badging they put on it???
Yep thought so. Here we go...........
ST170
Although the engine fitted to the Focus ST170 has Duratec emblazoned on the cam cover, it isn't a Duratec H4 at all. Fords marketing department presumably decreed that their top-of-the-line performance variant couldn't have an engine of older design than the cooker models, and so they dressed up a Zetec to look like the engine that replaced it. The Duratec H4 is an all alloy engine with chain-driven cams and the induction and exhaust on opposite sides of the head to the Zetec. The ST170 engine is basically a trick Zetec with a stronger bottom end and variable inlet cam timing. Some specialists say that the engine cannot be transplanted because the variable cam timing is controlled by the ECU in the Focus. However, one way of altering the cam timing would be to use the shift change lights output from an ECU for instance.
From http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/zetectune.shtml
Any more thoughts on this Dave? I just bought this sorry specimen for less than £200 when I have added up the bits I want and the bits I can sell I think I will be in profit...
I am in two minds as to whether to try and use the full loom and management or run aftermarket. I want to use the aircon system for the Belva along with little things like central location locking, interior lights etc and will need door locks and lots of bits a 7 doesn't need and so would have to make a custom loom in any case. Given it is all there to start with I am tempted to try and get it all out and give it a go.
I figured that buying all the bits for the air con system would be more than buying the full car and so may aswell try and make use of more of it and drop the engine in too.
A bit of mission creep going on with this project...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/jamesg20/5EF8CCAD-334B-49CE-94A1-F07A8F63FE43_zpspqfbzvfh.jpg)
Yes, I saw that one. I didn't bid on it though. I've been looking at around £400 mark, preferably drivable. Mot not needed, clutch fault ok, body damage ok, tatty trim ect. Trouble is I see some that would 'do up' well and get feeling it would be a shame to scrap them, then they creep up in the bidding though and usually go too high. Others look ok but have been to the moon several times and have running problems, smokey, rattley ect. IMRC 's not working are a gamble as to wether I can fix it or have to buy a new one (£300 ish). It is just a waiting game at the mo'. Have considered buying a 'crate blacktop' and hunting for bits, loom, ecu ect. Also maybe just a blacktop runner Focus, Mondeo. Another thing is to do away with oem ecu and use something else, 40's or TB's. Then there is the good old 'lack of space' thing, Ratbag is sat in it's storage box, Tranny and the 'pug' sat there too, getting a bit crowded!
Yeah, some of them are a gamble. I thought at the price I paid it was worth it for the bits I need and if the engine is scrap I won't have lost anything once I sell all the bits. If the engine is good it will be a bonus. At that price I'm not worried but wouldn't want to take a punt at the £900-1000 end of the range that the tidier examples go for still with quite high mileage.
Will let you know how I get on and how much I manage to recoup from selling bits on eBay.
The £1000 range is hard to consider when you can buy a new engine complete with manifolds, injection system, sensors, fly and clutch and engine wiring for slightly less. Would need to get an ecu ect and would be a bog standard blacktop, but a good safe start.
Dunno what I'll do yet, keep looking a bit longer I think. :-\
As you say selling off unwanted bits is a bonus. I made near on £500 from the unwanted bits when I bought the transit. ;)