This is what 1:03.5 looks like in a Radical PR6 around Castle Combe!!

[Facial Hair Optional]

Reminds me of a lap Ayrton Senna did around Monaco many years ago...

[Daley Down Under]

Josh Smith - son of Darcy Smith who runs Banwell Garage and pedals an SR4 quickly too.  Both are top blokes and love bike engined cars   

Cheers Adrian

[Moleman]

I wonder how good he is in the wet.    The camera doesn't really show just how good that lap is. 

[Iancider]

The camera doesn't really show just how good that lap is.

I think he must have been good - I was clenching!

[Facial Hair Optional]

It is scarily quick ain't it!!! 

[Facial Hair Optional]

I could watch that over and over and over! Fantastic 

[Gary RH7]

Interesting that he doesn't really catch up with the guys in front whatever they are.
Have a look at this one as you can see the speed etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=116&v=DgvxIDfsnwU

[Facial Hair Optional]

Yeah I noticed that too but I think they were all doing qualifying laps in Radicals for the same race so even a second a lap faster it would take a fair while to catch someone up.

Great vid Gary, I notice they nearly all creep forward on the grid, I have found it very hard to do a fast pull away in a BEC unless you do that. Once you are rolling you can floor it but to get going is a nightmare at times. You have to slip the clutch like mad, creep a bit and then hammer it. If anyone can tell me how to do it properly I'm all ears 

Trying to get off the line like you would in a normal car engined kit just seems to result in tons of judder and feels horrible.

PS. I am gonna practice it though on a nice quiet trading estate 

[Facial Hair Optional]

He has some serious bottle to pull off some of those overtaking moves he did. I just don't think I have the guts to drive like that! Maybe when I was young and wild but not anymore 

I'm sure having kids changes you, it does something to your risk taking genes I swear!

[Gary RH7]

I'm sure having kids changes you, it does something to your risk taking genes I swear!

I have never even been pregnant so I wouldn't know. My wife has had two kids with my help but it doesn't stop her driving like she don't care.

I am going to be in serious trouble now if she reads this

[Facial Hair Optional]

 

[Facial Hair Optional]

I noticed at the end that the driver was Simon Tilling, I think he may be the Combe lap record holder? No wonder he drove like a maniac!!

[Daley Down Under]

I noticed at the end that the driver was Simon Tilling, I think he may be the Combe lap record holder? No wonder he drove like a maniac!!

FHO - that's not Simon Tilling.  Its Josh Smith 

Cheers Adrian

[Daley Down Under]

I noticed at the end that the driver was Simon Tilling, I think he may be the Combe lap record holder? No wonder he drove like a maniac!!

FHO - that's not Simon Tilling.  Its Josh Smith 

Cheers Adrian

Simon Tilling drives the orange one

[Facial Hair Optional]

It was the orange one I was talking about Adrian, it says it's Simon Tilling at the end of the video!

[Iancider]

Good video - only spotted one slight mistake going into quarry - guessing rear wheel lock on down-change. 

FHO:  Pulling away in a BEC - I am guessing, not being a BEC driver but the torque to weight ratio on a BEC is poor compared to a bike.  There can only be enough momentum in the flywheel if you have loads of revs on - more perhaps than you might risk on a bike.  Doing that on cold tyres would then be interesting but control would come through the clutch and not the throttle but I would guess there is such a temptation to ease off. As soon as you feel enough grip then open the taps further.  There will be people here to tell us if I got that right.

Ian

[Facial Hair Optional]

I think you are on the right lines Ian, control defo seems to come via the clutch, you have to slip it A LOT and there is a huge urge to back off. It can be a painful thing to experience at times but practice makes perfect.

Someone recently told me that when doing a quick pull away on his bike the clutch isn't even fully engaged until about 40mph!

Obviously it is a very different clutch to a car clutch being wet so I think much harder to burn out? It's just getting the revs at the right level (high!!) and slipping the clutch enough to make it smooth. I have found it quite tricky and you can get a lot of clutch snatch/judder if not careful. Driving a BEC (well my one at least) requires a whole new level of delicate control from your feet for sure, throttle and clutch are both super light and very sensitive. I have found that once the car is moving, even very slightly you can let it go and get away pretty fast.

Not that I am driving it atm, it won't start!! Changed the plugs and it seemed to still not be quite right and now with this cold snap it wont fire up at all, so gotta get it looked at as soon as poss by an expert. Hopefully it's just the ignition coils or maybe a fueling issue.

If anyone knows owt about bike engines (Ed/Hairy Santa?) and has any insight I'd love to listen and learn 

[Iancider]

Check the plugs - that is what you just changed.  Dripping wet and it is flooded.  If they are too long you may just find the electrodes hammered flat (hope not!).  Publish the part numbers and somebody will tell you clear enough.

Ian

[Facial Hair Optional]

I will do that Ian thank you. I'm pretty sure they are the correct plugs though. NGK Iridium IX CR9EIX 3521

It's a Suzuki K1 GSX-R1000 engine

Cheers guys.

[Lucky Ed]

My GSXR1000 K8 was very prone to consuming plugs, and would develop a misfire after about 5k miles, especially on cylinders 2&3, so it's worth double checking.

I'm amazed these bike clutches stand up to the abuse they get in a BEC. I would have thought it would be better to get the clutch fully engaged before giving it the beans, and then do clutchless upshifts of if you're lucky get a quickshifter. You're right about slipping the clutch on these sportsbikes, my K8 would do 100 mph in first, so you really need to slip the clutch to stop it bogging down - but you needed to hang on a bit

[Facial Hair Optional]

Luckily the Asbo is extremely light even by kit car standards so that's a small plus point. The guy who built the car was advised to go for the K1 engine by a guy who builds and races motorbike sidecars, apparently the clutch can handle more weight and abuse on that version of the engine than on the later ones which is why he chose the K1 as opposed to a K2-K6+

It does seem to take off better when the clutch is fully engaged but that way you can only seem to get off the line with a rolling start, but then it goes like hell! It does about 65mph in 1st but I rarely do that.

99% of the time I use the clutch even though it has clutchless shift up and down (with a blip on the down shift). Kinder to the clutch. I think I'd only do clutchless shifts on the track probably.

Ed, when you say quickshifter what exactly do you mean? Are you saying it can change gear even quicker that it does now!!! 

[Lucky Ed]

It sounds like you've already got a quickshifter, as it's briefly cutting the power on upshifts and blipping the throttle on downshifts to help syncro the gears , it don't get no quicker than that

[Facial Hair Optional]

It's defo got blip on the downshift. Not sure about cutting the power on the upshift or not. I'm sure Andrew who had it b4 me said to just lift off a tad on each upshift so maybe not? I can defo do clutchless upshifts but not sure if it cuts the power/spark or not.

There are various of these shifters aren't there? The yellow Abso has the FlatShifter Expert which gives full power up shifts and blips on the down shift. The red Asbo has a lower level one which Andrew thought was better though I cannot recall why now (or which model it is!). I think it might be the FlatShifter Pro but I can't get the webpage up on that one on their site.

['The Gaffer']

I can highly recommend getting gear-change buttons fitted on the the steering wheel and an electrical actuator fitted to physically change the gears.

It's a bit like driving a mini-me F1 car.. I expect. Great fun though and you don't have to take your hands off the wheel.

[Facial Hair Optional]

I can highly recommend getting gear-change buttons fitted on the the steering wheel and an electrical actuator fitted to physically change the gears.

It's a bit like driving a mini-me F1 car.. I expect. Great fun though and you don't have to take your hands off the wheel.

I considered paddles but I actually quite like the gear stick change, reminds me of a rally car! Also means I will have to make sure I change gear in a straight line so I can have both hands on the wheel in corners, no bad thing!

[Facial Hair Optional]

It's defo got blip on the downshift. Not sure about cutting the power on the upshift or not. I'm sure Andrew who had it b4 me said to just lift off a tad on each upshift so maybe not? I can defo do clutchless upshifts but not sure if it cuts the power/spark or not.

There are various of these shifters aren't there? The yellow Abso has the FlatShifter Expert which gives full power up shifts and blips on the down shift. The red Asbo has a lower level one which Andrew thought was better though I cannot recall why now (or which model it is!). I think it might be the FlatShifter Pro but I can't get the webpage up on that one on their site.

Further to this post I found the Flatshifter Pro info, turns out that is full power upshifts too, the Expert is for race/track, the Pro more for road use. They do a push button or paddle system for both but I'm content with the gear stick for now.

[sanzomat]

My two penneth, having had sports bikes...

My R1 (injected 5PW version) could pull away gently in traffic with only about 1500 revs but I'd still slip the clutch to about 15mph. For a fast get away I'd balance the clutch and throttle to keep around 6000-7000 revs and the clutch wouldn't be fully home until about 40mph (circa 6000 revs) then I'd hold onto 1st until about 11,000 but only around 2/3 to 3/4 throttle as any more would flip me over. Up shifts would never need clutch, just back off the throttle momentarily - much smoother change than using the clutch and I'd say less stress on everything as it all just falls into place as revs match road speed. I couldn't use more than 3/4 throttle below 4th gear without wheelying and even then the kick as it passed 9000 could lift the front so best to never drop below 9000 when motoring. At least that shouldn't be a problem in a BEC so full throttle should be possible in any gear as long as traction allows.

That was on a 165kg machine (plus rider). The lightest of BEC's one up are going to be 2.5 times that so there will defo need to be lots of clutch slipping, even for an in town smooth pull away - I'd guess minimum 3000 slipped until it doesn't drop when it gets fully home. For a balls out pull away maybe 7-9000. With a bike the clutch control is very precise with a hand lever as a hand can easily make tiny movements, I'd imagine that's much harder with a foot, especially given the spring is so light, and the acceleration will tend to make you take your foot off quicker!! Lots of practice I guess.

[sanzomat]

Re the starting issue - I think most bikes are very sensitive to plugs - my experience was they go with age rather than use or miles. Only ever had misfires though and they seemed to misfire at low revs when the plugs started failing (you'd think the plugs would have a harder time at high revs but didn't seem to be the case)

Are you getting a spark with a plug out? The ignition coils can go. I think from memory there are two coil packs that each drive two cylinders with a wasted spark arrangement. You might get a spark on 1 and 4 but not 2 and 3 or vice versa. Again, they seemed to go at a certain age rather than useage so if its a K1 the parts would be 14 years old even if a very low mileage so that's where I'd look (assuming the fueling is okay).

[Facial Hair Optional]

My two penneth, having had sports bikes...

My R1 (injected 5PW version) could pull away gently in traffic with only about 1500 revs but I'd still slip the clutch to about 15mph. For a fast get away I'd balance the clutch and throttle to keep around 6000-7000 revs and the clutch wouldn't be fully home until about 40mph (circa 6000 revs) then I'd hold onto 1st until about 11,000 but only around 2/3 to 3/4 throttle as any more would flip me over. Up shifts would never need clutch, just back off the throttle momentarily - much smoother change than using the clutch and I'd say less stress on everything as it all just falls into place as revs match road speed. I couldn't use more than 3/4 throttle below 4th gear without wheelying and even then the kick as it passed 9000 could lift the front so best to never drop below 9000 when motoring. At least that shouldn't be a problem in a BEC so full throttle should be possible in any gear as long as traction allows.

That was on a 165kg machine (plus rider). The lightest of BEC's one up are going to be 2.5 times that so there will defo need to be lots of clutch slipping, even for an in town smooth pull away - I'd guess minimum 3000 slipped until it doesn't drop when it gets fully home. For a balls out pull away maybe 7-9000. With a bike the clutch control is very precise with a hand lever as a hand can easily make tiny movements, I'd imagine that's much harder with a foot, especially given the spring is so light, and the acceleration will tend to make you take your foot off quicker!! Lots of practice I guess.

Thanks Dave, that's brilliant advice. Bikes are too scary!!!

You are spot on about the in-town pull away mate. As for balls out, I tried 6000 and it bogged down too much so I suspect you are right about that too, 7-9000 sounds very likely from my experience so far.

It is indeed a lot harder by foot to control the clutch and took me a liitle while to get the hang of it. Very delicate! And as you say, the acceleration can and does cause some foot movement when you least need it so sometimes you have to try and compensate a little. Same goes for the throttle sometimes too. Tricky but a lot of fun. Am considering fitting a stronger return spring to the accerator pedal and see how that feels, or even a mini damper unit ala F1 style to help prevent pedal bounce when going hard and hitting uneven ground. They make them for RC vehicles and am toying with trying one out one day. Have to get the darned thing running again 1st though    (see link below)

One thing for sure, I have found you drive a BEC quite a bit differently from a CEC, though I can only speak for my one, others may be different for all I know.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-HSP-1-10-RC-Car-Buggy-Alloy-106004-Shock-Damper-Suspension-Absorber-Blue-/281560300933?hash=item418e4d3d85:g:XPYAAOSwBahVcFE8

[sanzomat]

I will do that Ian thank you. I'm pretty sure they are the correct plugs though. NGK Iridium IX CR9EIX 3521

It's a Suzuki K1 GSX-R1000 engine

Cheers guys.

This thread has drifted a bit!! anyway, just checked a gixer forum and a couple of ideas - have you checked the oil level? Apparently they have a low oil level cut out switch and can sometimes be very sensitive. Also, there is a side stand down cut out - shouldn't prevent it from starting in neutral but will kill the ignition when it goes into gear. I'd imagine the builder would have taken it out of the circuit but you never know. Same for the pendulum switch - bikes have a cut out switch that triggers when the bike falls over - if its not been removed maybe its at the wrong angle?

[Iancider]

Well I never knew that!

Bikes have changed totally since I rode them!

Ian

[Facial Hair Optional]

Re the starting issue - I think most bikes are very sensitive to plugs - my experience was they go with age rather than use or miles. Only ever had misfires though and they seemed to misfire at low revs when the plugs started failing (you'd think the plugs would have a harder time at high revs but didn't seem to be the case)

Are you getting a spark with a plug out? The ignition coils can go. I think from memory there are two coil packs that each drive two cylinders with a wasted spark arrangement. You might get a spark on 1 and 4 but not 2 and 3 or vice versa. Again, they seemed to go at a certain age rather than useage so if its a K1 the parts would be 14 years old even if a very low mileage so that's where I'd look (assuming the fueling is okay).

Yes that was how it was Dave, the misfire was at lower revs especially if in a higher gear. When revved high it was not so apparent. Havent checked for spark yet, that is the next job I think. I suspect maybe one or more of the ignition coils or leads has stared to break down. When it was running last all the exhaust manifolds got warm pretty quick so am guessing that at idle at least there is combustion of some sort going on? From memory there was one coil per cycinder when I looked.

I think it may have flooded last time I tried to start it due to not firing up at all, whatever was breaking down, the cold killed it. I could hear fuel dribbling back into the tank too. It could still be a fuel problem I guess. Won't know til get at it again hopefully soon.

Thanks for all your help mate, much appreciated.

[Facial Hair Optional]

Well I never knew that!

Bikes have changed totally since I rode them!

Ian

Same here!!!