Got the crossflow out of Ratbag yesterday and put in the pinto short motor in,to enable fabricating the engine mounts. Amazingly, it all fitted! No mods required :o ;D. Working in a dusty lane but with good weather so progressed quite well. Didn't have the luxury of a crane so all went in by hand, which was heavy going. However, Bulldog Bri came round and held my coat :P :P :-*. Have another stint on it today, hopefully the weather will behave again.
What happened to the ST motor, Dave?
Ian
If I remember rightly Dave, you disappeared off with some bogus looking for a strap excuse, to help lift the short block in. While I picked it up and put it in by myself :-*
8)
Huuuuufff, how very dare you! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lol. Hope you found some bolts after I left today, for the water pump, state housing and alternater brackets. Plus Hooe the rain didn't spoil your fun either. ;D
8)
Yeah, done all that. Stopped for a break, but went back out 'til it rained. Will collect the oil and antifeeze tomorrow and may start on the wiring. Got the deli's on the manifold with new thackery's tonight. Still waiting for a few items yet. Did you have the alternator adjuster? Cant remember taking it off.
If you're stuck for an alternator adjuster, I have one here you can have. Good luck with the build Dave.
Quote from: longtimecoming on 18, May, 2016, 12:54:14 PM
If you're stuck for an alternator adjuster, I have one here you can have. Good luck with the build Dave.
Cheers mate, but Bri brought one around this afternoon. Thanks anyway. Got top and bottom hoses to sort next and taking the electrics from one side to the other. Still need to source a bonnet yet as mine aint gonna fit now!
QuoteStill need to source a bonnet yet as mine aint gonna fit now!
I an sure you could fettle one Dave!
Ian
Engine in and running. Amusingly it starts on the button with everything set up by guesswork! Ignition set at about 6 degrees static, carb mixtures screwed right in and back out 2 turns was enough to start it. A bit of fiddling about got the tickover to 900 rpm and running fairly evenly. A bit of popping at the exhaust so I've left it to cool and will recheck the valve clearances and tighten the head tomorrow.
The bonnet no longer fits as the carbs stick out over the chassis rail on one side, the exhaust manifold on the other and the top pulley out through front! This is gonna be fun!
This brings me to a list of stuff I'm on the lookout for, I need...
a - A silencer, as the old one isn't going to be big enough
b - Radiator, same reason I think
c - Carb' balancer
d - tin snips
e - a big hammer!
I have a new Gunson's carbalancer Dave, you are welcome to use it. I can't vouch for it's effectiveness, though I have no reason to doubt it. I tried it the other day but I was not sure how to balance my Webers so didnt really get a result. It did show the airflow quite well though so I expect you'd do better with it than me! I guess if they didn't work they would not sell so many?
Quote from: sanzomat on 26, May, 2016, 10:13:46 PM
d - tin snips
e - a big hammer!
something like that I expect ;D
Cheers Steve, I'll give it a go if you let me know when and where. Seen them on ebay but haven't used one.
Anytime mate. Are you in a rush for it? You are welcome to come pick it up or if I'm out and about I can drop it down to you. You've got my mobile number Dave, just give me a call or text anytime
Had a go with the Gunsons carb balancer. It's not surgically precise but has returned a reasonable result. I found the link cable between the cold starts to be too tight, which was keeping the rear carb cold start partially on :(. Have taken it off as I don't use them, four throttle pumps does the job. Have been trying to find spigot tubes for the vacuum ports, but no luck yet.
I ordered a 6" x 22" stainless silencer from
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131701028455?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
yesterday at 11.am. It arrived at 10.30 am today, click'n'collect at my local Homebase! ;D. Not too bad, complete with new clamps too.
Nice one Dave! Reckon you could make it work on my Tiger twin Webers 40s?
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 01, June, 2016, 07:46:30 PM
Nice one Dave! Reckon you could make it work on my Tiger twin Webers 40s?
Happy to give it a try anytime. Have a digital tacho coming soon, should help with the adjustments
Tried Ratbag up Tog hill yesterday and it pulls very well, but the handling is quite different. Can't bury the throttle going in now!
I have started carving my bonnet to fit around the carbs air filters (K&N) and the exhaust manifold. Need to chop some out of the centre to clear the engine and then devise a cover for it. Rained off today, try again tomorrow.
There is some good weather on the way Dave! :)
Well done Dave!
Quote from: benchmark51 on 01, June, 2016, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 01, June, 2016, 07:46:30 PM
Nice one Dave! Reckon you could make it work on my Tiger twin Webers 40s?
Happy to give it a try anytime. Have a digital tacho coming soon, should help with the adjustments
Tried Ratbag up Tog hill yesterday and it pulls very well, but the handling is quite different. Can't bury the throttle going in now!
I have started carving my bonnet to fit around the carbs air filters (K&N) and the exhaust manifold. Need to chop some out of the centre to clear the engine and then devise a cover for it. Rained off today, try again tomorrow.
How's it going now Dave, did your digi tacho arrive yet? I guess the pinto lump is a bit heavier than the old x flow which will effect handling or maybe it's just too quick now to bury the throttle going in? I seem to recall you have a fast road cam in it? With twin carbs that could be around 150bhp?
No, the tacho not here yet. Due tomorrow' ish. Seems to be ok temperature wise, I was expecting to change the radiator but no problem there. Getting a bit of popping back on the overrun and suspect a leak at the ex manifold. May need some hairier gaskets in there. Took it to a private road and it pulled well up to 120 but ran out of road. Too much welly in the corners got me sideways so need to watch that in the wet I think. I've chopped the necessary out of the bonnet and got it on, but need to cover the cam pulley, filler cap and throttle linkage with something now. May have to devise a lump like on a tiger. Where do you park yours? lol.
Quote from: benchmark51 on 06, June, 2016, 11:14:56 AM
Getting a bit of popping back on the overrun and suspect a leak at the ex manifold.
Do you mean back throught the carbs? I get that too Dave. Mine has always popped and banged on the overrun through the exhaust, I thought all pintos did that on kits!
Quote from: benchmark51 on 06, June, 2016, 11:14:56 AM
May have to devise a lump like on a tiger. Where do you park yours? lol.
It's well under lock and key!! You're always welcome to come look at it or take measurements etc mate
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 06, June, 2016, 05:15:06 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 06, June, 2016, 11:14:56 AM
Getting a bit of popping back on the overrun and suspect a leak at the ex manifold.
Do you mean back throught the carbs? I get that too Dave. Mine has always popped and banged on the overrun through the exhaust, I thought all pintos did that on kits!
No, not through the carbs. When decelerating, a popping through the exhaust with an occasional bigger bang.
As young'uns, years ago we used to drill holes in the manifold to cause an air leak and when approaching bus stops we would decelerate, get an injection of cold air and ignite unburnt fuel. A big bang would happen which would wake up the bus queue. I know we was bad :-X :-X
Quote from: benchmark51 on 06, June, 2016, 06:14:07 PM
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 06, June, 2016, 05:15:06 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 06, June, 2016, 11:14:56 AM
Getting a bit of popping back on the overrun and suspect a leak at the ex manifold.
Do you mean back throught the carbs? I get that too Dave. Mine has always popped and banged on the overrun through the exhaust, I thought all pintos did that on kits!
No, not through the carbs. When decelerating, a popping through the exhaust with an occasional bigger bang.
As young'uns, years ago we used to drill holes in the manifold to cause an air leak and when approaching bus stops we would decelerate, get an injection of cold air and ignite unburnt fuel. A big bang would happen which would wake up the bus queue. I know we was bad :-X :-X
Every Pinto engined kit car I've seen and read up on says the same thing Dave, 'pops and bangs fantastically on the overrun' Not sure it can be stopped can it?
These days they sell 'flamer kits' basically a spark plug that you screw into the exhaust pipe or box to ignite the unburnt fuel I believe? Nice fat flames shoot out the end so I am told. Looks good at night but may be totally illegal!!
I have got it running well now, starts easily, just a little 'tickling' on the throttle for a minute or so and it will tickover quite happily. However fuel consumption isn't that good, although it pulls very well all the way up to 70(and well beyond on private roads ;D of course). I may have to try different chokes and jets. Chokes are mid point 30, mains 120, air corr' 170, emulsion 7772.7, idle 50. After a quiet, non hairy run the plugs are quite black so may need some changes there. I know it is going to be thirstier than the cross flow, but would be happier if the plugs showed a better colour.
Sounds like a good result so far Dave.
Not so bad so far. My 3 other vac port connectors arrived today so I'll have a play with the carbs again. Still fighting with the bonnet at the mo', or will be as soon as I put the shopping away. :D
Had a play with my vac gauges today. Connected them up and the car started straight away as usual and after a minute, was ticking over nicely. Waited for a while for it to warm up and the gauges indicated the rear carb running very slightly slow. 1/4 turn on the balance screw sorted that. Re-set the tickover to 800 and started adjusting mixtures, very little adjustments were needed to get highest rpm on all four, a couple of 'bootfuls' and back to a 800 tickover. It does drive very well, but still gets sooty plugs so need to try jets now.
So the Gunson's kit did an ok job then Dave? If I bring my Tiger over sometime soon do you fancy teaching me how to do it?? ::) ;D
Yep, got it damned close alright. Of course I''ll show you what I know. Before doing it you need to have good ignition, compression, no leaks and correct timing. Pretty obvious really. Gives me a ring when you want.
I wanted to get on with my bonnet, but got rained off today. Got the scoop on and exhaust/ air filter carving done. Just shaping, finishing and paint now.
Cheers Dave. As far as I know all those things are ok. The guy at the rolling road didn't mention any were wrong last time it was done and it hasn't done that many miles since.
In any case it has to be able to be got running better than it is now!
I'll give you a shout after the weekend.
Good luck with the bonnet mate, I'm at Combe tomorrow but I have to say the weather ain't looking very good atm
Doesn't look too clever at all. In between rain you have standing water and everything gets mucky, still gives you sumfin to do on Sunday.
Quote from: benchmark51 on 25, June, 2016, 08:33:25 AM
Doesn't look too clever at all. In between rain you have standing water and everything gets mucky, still gives you sumfin to do on Sunday.
Turned out to be a stonkingly beautiful day - until about 4pm when it rained like the world was about to end!!!
It's been mixed weekend for me, sun then rain then cloud and wind. So progress on the bonnet has been a slow in out, in out shake it all about time! Got some done and will plod on in between showers. At least the bonnet is 'usable' in it's unpainted state and there's no rush anyway.
Ratbag is running very well now and have done a few miles to locate and iron out a few niggles. Have an oil leak at the rear main, or sump. Had a feeling it might, used an old clutch to try it. It was a new seal fitted about 3 years ago, but the engine sat in the cupboard and was never used. Also the sump is shortened so may be that which is leaking. I am hoping I have enough room to shove the engine forward to change the clutch, will go about 6 or 7 inches forward. We'll see.
Doubt if I can buy a centre plate on it's own, unless any one knows different?
My shortened pinto sump leaked too Dave, bit of a nause when they do those things are. Hope you get it sorted easily. I know you wont need a hand but if you do give me a shout, you know where I am!!!
Ok ta. It is driving alright but getting clutch slip at higher revs, pretty sure there is oil on it. Would be suprised if it was the sump though.
Went out in it last night, couldn't go for a drink cos I'm on anti-biotics from the dentist for a week. Roads were very quiet, dunno why.
There was a report on tv that some nutter was out on the roads high on antibiotics and driving a kit car Dave, maybe that was why?? :o
Re clutch slip Dave, I have had the same issue with my Tiger, only when in 5th gear and giving it a bootful though. I do wonder if with the cam that we both have it could be an issue of too much torque???
I had 3 tonic waters as well!
I have a light flywheel also. I don't have any clutch judder at all, but doubt that it is anything other than oil. Clutches can handle much more powerful engines ok.
You shudda put some Bombay Sapphire in those tonics to water them down you crazy fool!! :o :P :P
I wish, no booze for a week. Not that that's unusual really.
Finished the anti-bi's now, normal service can be resumed!
Still have my doubts about Ratbags cooling. Will behave ok if kept below 50 mph, but heats to 100+ if booted. Wired the fan to a switch to keep it running all the time, but it only just copes. So I'm thinking of a 3 row ally radiator may do the job better. Have put a couple of louvre vents in the bonnet yesterday but haven't tried it yet.
You know what Ian would say mate - Evans Waterless Coolant!!!
Just ordered a 3 row ally rad. Core is same width, 3" taller and double the thickness. My fan will fit closer to the core so shouldn't lose so much 'blow' at the sides. Should be here on Thursday. :D
That'll look pretty damned smart too Dave 8)
Well won't really be seen, just hope it works
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272303619269?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I've never had a cooling issue with my pinto mate, the Tiger has never overheated not even in hot weather in a bad traffic jam last year. I wonder what the difference is then, air flow through the nosecone maybe?
I think the radiators are much the same, but I have a bigger fan that doesn't fit close to the core. The shroud is too big and fits against the upper and lower tanks, leaving a gap for air to escape at the sides and not pass through the core. Also the core is only 25mm thick. When measuring, I found an earth wire that had come loose and could have been giving intermittent fan operation :-X.
There was always a slight cooling problem even with the cross-flow engine and this one runs hotter. The new ally one is suppose to be 30 - 40 % more efficient, is slightly bigger (fan fits closer) and was only £56.
Good deal mate, let's hope it works. Off to Combe today, are you coming??
New rad performed well on the Sunday blat with no water loss at all. Temp was pretty normal, but did cheat a bit and let the fan run continuously. Have a 87- 82 deg switch on order, feel more comfortable with that range. Just checked the plugs colour and they are spot on, nice tan colour. Not run since Sunday, but started first turn this morning. All seems well now. :D
Nice one Dave, looks like you might have a result there 8)
All sorted Dave, nice one.. Whats next on the Hit-List :)
I'm thinking of wrapping the exhaust manifold and tidying the hoses under the bonnet, maybe a new header tank too. ;)
I've just put a very similar rad on the tiger. Seems to work well
I'm looking at finding top and bottom hoses that fit better than the ones I have. Trouble is the local shops don't keep much stock any-more, need to see them to judge what you need. My fan switch arrived from aceparts.com today, trouble is the silly sods don't seem to know the difference between a fan switch and a oil pressure switch :-X. I moaned and they asked me to email the part number off the box, which I did, then they wanted a photo of it! Cancelled it, got refund, ordered elsewhere now.
Which reminds me!!! I must wrap my exhaust as you said.. To help with my heat coming thru the into the cockpit area.. Need to locate some nice looking vents for the side of the body and may be the bonnet!!!
I think I will go for a black exhaust wrap, it will probably end up black eventually. There are vents on ebay but try looking up boat vents too, they do quite nice ones.
Checked my plugs after the run on Sunday, I reckon the jet sizes are about right now.
(https://s32.postimg.org/fj9aav45d/20160803_115831.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fj9aav45d/)
Plugs looking good I reckon.. Will pop on flea-bay and check out boat vents :)
Got some exhaust wrap on yesterday, bloody itchy stuff that is! Started the engine and smoke from the exhaust wrap was mega :o. Allowed it to cool down and ran it again through several heat cycles and it is calming down now.
Had a bit of paint left so painted the bonnet, looks better now but will flat it and give it another coat later.
That's put me off now from doing mine :)
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 24, July, 2016, 03:03:13 AM
I've never had a cooling issue with my pinto mate, the Tiger has never overheated not even in hot weather in a bad traffic jam last year. I wonder what the difference is then, air flow through the nosecone maybe?
I have found that a lot of air can bypass the Rad' if the sides are not sealed off, (as best you can).I have fitted a shroud over the Rad' forcing more air through the Rad'.
It does stop apparently, but then produces steam on rainy days if not covered. So if your engine bay isn't completely sealed from the cockpit it could be a problem.
Quote from: longtimecoming on 17, August, 2016, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 24, July, 2016, 03:03:13 AM
I've never had a cooling issue with my pinto mate, the Tiger has never overheated not even in hot weather in a bad traffic jam last year. I wonder what the difference is then, air flow through the nosecone maybe?
I have found that a lot of air can bypass the Rad' if the sides are not sealed off, (as best you can).I have fitted a shroud over the Rad' forcing more air through the Rad'.
I had that thought and have a 4" gap either side of the radiator, I may try a couple of plates to direct the air into the core.
Gents,
I've been reading this thread with interest as I've got an overheating issue with my car, could I pick your brains? Car is a VStorm with a bike engine (Aprilia V twin) which as you probably know is mid-mounted in one of these. Problem I've got is the (standard) bike rad is hidden away under the rear bodywork with no direct air flow through it at all, nor even (as originally designed) any vents/ducts directing air to it. What do you think is more important, size of the rad or trying to get an airflow through it? I've considered trying to relocate the existing rad to one side of the car and cutting an air scoop into the panel, do you think this would work or should I look at increasing the size of the rad instead/as well? I've got a KTM 1200 (also a V Twin but more horsepower than the car!) bike running a very similar engine, that too always runs at just under 100 degrees C but obviously that rad is stuck out in direct airflow, so I'm worried with the car always hovering just under (and occasionally over) that temperature I'm storing up problems, any thoughts?
Thanks Andy F
Hi Andy, It's difficult to say with any certainty without seeing a few pictures. However I would think airflow is absolutely necessary for a radiator to work. Forward motion supplying airflow through the radiator and an electric fan, controlled by a temperature switch, when the vehicle is stationary. The fan more efficient when sucking air through radiator, rather than blowing. This is dependant on available space. Like I've said pictures would help. Dave
Thanks Dave, I'll try and get some decent snaps of the set up over the weekend and post them next week. Really appreciate your help, Andy F
You might find the side scoops from the subaru version will fit. Im guessing the center scoop is supposed to feed the rad on the bike version?
Not on mine unfortunately, the top scoop just forces air down in to the air induction somewhat unnecessarily. Alternative side panels might be worth a shout though thanks, I'll have to contact the new manufacturers of the car, although when I spoke to them they weren't sure they were going to do anything for the bike engine versions at the moment which is a shame to my mind, not all of us could handle the power from the Scooby lump. Loved the sound of the turbo kicking in and out when I test drove one a while ago though, you're a lucky man!
I'm not so sure its lucky or not lol.. sounds a bit odd, could you not redirect the air flow to the radiator?
If not maybe have a chat with dan he has all the cad for the subaru version and i would imagine the bike version to so should be able to see if the subaru side pod is doable on yours. He's a nice chap i had a good chat with him at Stoneleigh.
If not then maybe you will have to fashion your own
The rad is buried low down alongside the engine fairly tight up against the back of the nearside rear set moulding, looks like it's probably in the original position relative to the engine as in the bike donor, would be really tortuous to try and get any ducting to it to be honest. Looks like I'll probably have to end up relocating it to a better position similar to the car engine version, sounds like a winter project... Trouble is if I'm going to do that I might as well swap the whole set up for a 1200 V twin KTM which is sitting in the garage which I've had from new. That puts out a little over 165BHP and was absolutely mental to ride before I had to give up two wheels, but I still hanker after being able to get back on it one day so don't really want to pull it apart just yet.
With hindsight I should have bought the Scoobybits Subaru-powered car Jason down in Redruth built for himself that was up for sale recently, don't know if you ever saw that one but it was an absolute beast! Either that or speak to the new manufacturer and see if he would sell just the rear chassis kit and wishbones etc. to build up a car engine version for a swap over later, now that would be a winter project...
Relocating the rad should be fairly easy it will just be getting some air to it. It does make you wonder why someone would put the rad where it is. The bike engine car is quite a lot lighter than the subaru one so probably handles better. There is always an argument for and against.
Im sure dan would be able to supply a subaru engine cradle, although i know he has made improvements to the design so his and the sdr version isnt interchangable.
Do you have any pics of your car?
I think jason still has his car for sale. Its a similar spec to mine i believe.
If yours is as good as Jasons you're a VERY lucky man and I am proper jealous! Oddly enough I was working in Cornwall today so called in to Scooby Bits and had a look at a customers (car engine) version they have in the shop, the rad is so much better positioned in this than on mine but gives me an idea of how/where it should be. I thought Jason had sold his but you're absolutely right it's still there (last time I spoke to him he was under spousal pressure for it to go as he wanted to replace it with another toy) but don't think I can justify having two of them though, although one bike engine and a second with the Subaru lump seems perfectly reasonable to me? Mine is still hidden in Devon at the moment but hopefully next week I'm bringing it up closer to home and I'll try and take some photos then and upload them, you will then be able to appreciate/be horrified at just how daft the rad position is.
The rads seem to be in a good position but there isnt a great deal of flow out of the engine bay so we still have some issues especially with heat soak in slow moving traffic and the interwarmer on top of the engine. I would imagine the bike rad on the side would be more than enough to keep it cool. Where abouts are you btw? Im gloucester if tou fancy a drive when you have your car home
Drive out would be really good, I'm not a million miles away as live in Yate but work across the South West so often have an excuse to be places I shouldn't! As soon as car is moved back closer to home (next week now) I'll take some photos of the God awful rad position and post to see if you have any other ideas.
Ahh thats good, I work in wotton under edge so pretty close. Fingers crossed we will have some reasonable weather to get out!
How far can you drive it before it gets to hot?
Not far from me, I'm in Warmley. I've had a few warm day runs over the last few days and the temp has stayed steady at 90c, even with a few 'naughty sprints' ;D.
Good one Dave, do you have the fan running constant or is it on the switch?
I used a temp switch, 97c - 92c first but swapped to a 87c - 82c and had a 'cheat ' manual switch just in case. The 'cheat' switch now gone as It is working well now. Main improvement was the 3 tube ally radiator (civic) located further forward allowing room for the rear mounted fan. :)