Bristol Kit Car Club and Forum - BKCC

Introduce Yourself Here And Have A Chat => Kit Car Discussion - Click Here => Topic started by: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 03:58:09 PM

Title: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 03:58:09 PM
Just ordered a heater for Ratbag! Ordered from T7 Design. Been thinking about it for so long I thought I would go for it now! I have got ally bulkhead connectors already, so a good chance I will be nice and toasty soon.


(http://s9.postimg.org/wprmr3857/heat1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wprmr3857/)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: 'Mendip Wurzel' on 16, November, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Presumably it runs from electric, or is it connected to water. If it is electric, with the headlights on etc won't the battery struggle to keep up with the discharge
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Moleman on 16, November, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
You will be having heated seats next.  :D 
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 08:19:02 PM
No it is water heated through 1/2 inch hose from the engine.

specs:

    Heat Output: 3.5kw
    Airflow: 190cfm (322m3/h)
    Voltage: 12v
    Amps: 3a startup, 2a continuous running
    Weight: 1250grams
    Hose Fittings: 1/2" (13mm)


(http://s24.postimg.org/ui08ekz8x/T7f.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ui08ekz8x/)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Moleman on 16, November, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Are these any good with the top down then?  :)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: sanzomat on 16, November, 2015, 08:46:30 PM
I'd be interested to know how well it does heat a 7 whilst on the move. With a roof and sides on it should make a big difference but open I'm not so sure. My Spyder's heater blows out some pretty hot air, in fact it easily gets too hot with the roof up and windows shut but with the top down it just about keeps your feet warm. You really notice it when you stop at lights/junctions though! I actually think heated seats would be a better option in many respects although don't know how much current they draw.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 16, November, 2015, 08:59:52 PM
Quote from: sanzomat on 16, November, 2015, 08:46:30 PM
I actually think heated seats would be a better option in many respects although don't know how much current they draw.
I don't have a heater in the Tiger and my legs and abdomen stay really toasty. In fact they can get very warm indeed, center tunnel one side, hot exhaust the other and hot bulkhead at my toes. I'm not sure a heater would be any better in a 7 tbh, most of it will escape and if your car is owt like mine your legs etc won't need any further heating than they get now.

I have heated seats in my tin top and they are bloody awesome, I think Dave is right, heated seats in a 7 is a really great idea. That is the option I would choose if I were going to do it. Or get one of Colin's plug in electric heated coats!

Of course I don't have a screen to demist or worry about which is where a heater really scores.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 09:45:32 PM
Well we shall see.....

I have a certain amount of heat vented from the tunnel, but not a lot and certainly not enough.
The heater is modular so you can configure how many outlets and where the heat is delivered. How and where I duct the warm air is to be decided, but will start with 2 closable/ directional vents into the footwells. That leaves 1 spare outlet on either side, which could be ducted to the seat area. Then a centre duct which can be used for demisting.

At the moment if I go out on a run and get wet and cold then that is how it stays untill I get home. :(
Now with a roof, sidescreens and heater I have a chance to get warm and dry. :)

Obviously any car is going to lose cabin heat if you take the roof off, but if that is a problem you can put the roof back on :o
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: sanzomat on 16, November, 2015, 10:04:26 PM
I reckon with your roof on and side things you'll really notice a big difference.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 16, November, 2015, 10:22:10 PM
Get an MX5, or a onesie!! ha ha!!  :-*
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 10:29:06 PM
Had a onesie, but the dog ate it! MX5 has been considered if I can get one the right flavour.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: 'Mendip Wurzel' on 16, November, 2015, 10:31:22 PM

I don't have a heater in the Tiger and my legs and abdomen stay really toasty. In fact they can get very warm indeed, center tunnel one side, hot exhaust the other and hot bulkhead at my toes. I'm not sure a heater would be any better in a 7 tbh, most of it will escape and if your car is owt like mine your legs etc won't need any further heating than they get now.
[/quote]

I also get a lot of heat from my engine in the foot wells which is fine in cooler weather but can be hard work on a hot summers day. I have spent quite a bit of time trying to seal my foot wells and insulate, to keep heat out.     
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 16, November, 2015, 10:33:40 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 10:29:06 PM
Had a onesie, but the dog ate it! MX5 has been considered if I can get one the right flavour.
Cracking little cars the original ones. What flavour suits your taste Dave? I hope you have better taste then your dog!!!
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 16, November, 2015, 10:37:44 PM
Quote from: 'Mendip Wurzel' on 16, November, 2015, 10:31:22 PM

I also get a lot of heat from my engine in the foot wells which is fine in cooler weather but can be hard work on a hot summers day. I have spent quite a bit of time trying to seal my foot wells and insulate, to keep heat out.   
Has it worked? If not how about venting the footwells to let the heat escape somehow? A system that can be closed to keep heat in the footwell in winter but open to let it out in summer would be cool (no pun intended!)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 17, November, 2015, 11:28:10 AM
A few pics of the heater fitted to a seven.


(http://s30.postimg.org/r4479i2u5/T7_G.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r4479i2u5/)

(http://s30.postimg.org/cid6l961p/T7_H.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cid6l961p/)

(http://s30.postimg.org/9cskv1nfh/T7_J.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9cskv1nfh/)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 17, November, 2015, 12:21:24 PM
Looks very neat Dave and smaller that I thought it would be too. Should be good in Ratbag mate
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Moleman on 17, November, 2015, 08:38:16 PM
Agreed, I did think it would be bigger for some reason.  :)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Gary RH7 on 17, November, 2015, 08:46:41 PM
Hope you got your 10% off Dave. Keep us posted on how good it is.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 17, November, 2015, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: Moleman on 17, November, 2015, 08:38:16 PM
Agreed, I did think it would be bigger for some reason.  :)

They do a smaller one! 2.2kw output, used by rally cars as demisters

(http://s1.postimg.org/ohrbf227v/T7_R.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ohrbf227v/)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 17, November, 2015, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gary RH7 on 17, November, 2015, 08:46:41 PM
Hope you got your 10% off Dave. Keep us posted on how good it is.

Well, yes and no really. I'll let you know tomorrow when I get it
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 18, November, 2015, 06:56:59 PM
Well it's tomorrow already and the heater was delivered by Interlink express bang on time! 24 hour delivery too. Peeing down so didn't do anything on Ratbag today :(.

Unpacked it and it really is small. 1/2 inch pipe connections and with 2 opening outlets fitted, 2 x 2inch spigot pipes not fitted and 1 blanking plate. All ready drilled with a little bag of rivets. Aluminium, finished in a black crinkle finish. Looks well made too, so looking good.

The best discount offered was 5% by T7. I checked out several different ads' including Demontweaks and prices varied, as did the outlet configurations. The one I wanted, with the right outlets was from T7 and was £130 + £9.50 del. Luckily I found another T7 ad offering the same outlets at £120 inc del, so I went with that :). Other ads' were down to £110 inc del, but not with closable outlets.

Overall quite happy with it and probably cheaper than a wet day at the track ;D ;D.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Moleman on 18, November, 2015, 07:14:22 PM
Don't knock it until you try it Dave.  ;)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Lucky Ed on 18, November, 2015, 07:21:31 PM
The best thing about a wet track day is I can talk a very good lap in the cafe ;)

Good luck with the heater Dave, it looks like you might need it this weekend ;D
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 18, November, 2015, 07:29:43 PM
Quote from: Lucky Ed on 18, November, 2015, 07:21:31 PM
The best thing about a wet track day is I can talk a very good lap in the cafe ;)
I can vouch for that! I learned a lot in the cafe that rainy day at Combe  8)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Iancider on 18, November, 2015, 10:07:27 PM
I am a bit confused....

If this is 3KW and electric that means at 12Volts it is drawing 250 Amps - about what the starter motor uses and the alternator would only produce 40 amps tops.  So the battery would die in about 2-3 minutes. 

So I am guessing it is heated from the cooling water and the 3 amps is for just the fan.  Otherwise I cant see where the 3KW comes from.  Also if it is 3KW that is about enough to heat a 2 bed flat in mid-winter - toasty!

Ian
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 18, November, 2015, 10:14:21 PM
It does use the cooling water Ian, Dave says so near the start of the thead after Mendip Wurzel had similar misgivings....

Quote from: benchmark51 on 16, November, 2015, 08:19:02 PM
No it is water heated through 1/2 inch hose from the engine.

specs:

    Heat Output: 3.5kw
    Airflow: 190cfm (322m3/h)
    Voltage: 12v
    Amps: 3a startup, 2a continuous running
    Weight: 1250grams
    Hose Fittings: 1/2" (13mm)


(http://s24.postimg.org/ui08ekz8x/T7f.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ui08ekz8x/)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: damouk on 19, November, 2015, 08:24:03 AM
Quote from: Iancider on 18, November, 2015, 10:07:27 PM
I am a bit confused....

If this is 3KW and electric that means at 12Volts it is drawing 250 Amps - about what the starter motor uses and the alternator would only produce 40 amps tops.  So the battery would die in about 2-3 minutes. 

So I am guessing it is heated from the cooling water and the 3 amps is for just the fan.  Otherwise I cant see where the 3KW comes from.  Also if it is 3KW that is about enough to heat a 2 bed flat in mid-winter - toasty!

Ian


You are right Ian the heat is from the hot water, we usually talk of heat output in the uk in btu's but as we are more global these days and a lot of heaters are electric it makes more sense to use the kw. 3kw is about 10000 btu which isn't too shabby, you have to remember the wind chill when moving and lack of insulation in cars compared to a house.

To put it in perspective our limos have at least 75000 btu's of cooling
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Iancider on 19, November, 2015, 09:45:31 PM
Quoteyou have to remember the wind chill

Well you are certainly and expert on that part!
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: damouk on 19, November, 2015, 09:49:58 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 19, November, 2015, 09:45:31 PM
Quoteyou have to remember the wind chill

Well you are certainly and expert on that part!

I am indeed, but won't feel the chill until next spring all being well :-)


(http://s15.postimg.org/tccl797l3/G0030270_1447355769919_high.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/tccl797l3/)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: sanzomat on 20, November, 2015, 08:31:25 AM
Looks pretty major - keep posting updates.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 20, November, 2015, 08:23:49 PM
Blimey mate! I hope you know where it all goes next Spring!!!
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 28, November, 2015, 02:53:39 PM
Have got a few more bits on the way. A manifold water pipe connector, a cable operated watertap for the manifold to top heater pipe. A 3 way connector for the header tank which will go into the lower heater pipe to water pump. Didn't order all at the same time as the heater as didn't know what I already had or what I might need. But no rush anyway. Sodding weather not playing ball either >:(
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Moleman on 28, November, 2015, 06:29:27 PM
Hope you get it sorted mate.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: paintman on 29, November, 2015, 12:16:24 AM
I got the old Sierra one fitted but never bother to use it because loads of heat comes through the bulkhead after
i've given it a rant.....gets too hot in summer obviously! ::)

Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 29, November, 2015, 12:31:58 AM
Quote from: paintman on 29, November, 2015, 12:16:24 AM
I got the old Sierra one fitted but never bother to use it because loads of heat comes through the bulkhead after
i've given it a rant.....gets too hot in summer obviously! ::)

I haven't ever found it too hot. It is getting the water tap so I can stop the heat then use the blower on cold if neccesary.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: paintman on 29, November, 2015, 01:12:47 AM

[/quote]

I haven't ever found it too hot. It is getting the water tap so I can stop the heat then use the blower on cold if neccesary.
[/quote]

I use a plumbing service valve to cut off the water to the heater matrix but the heater never runs cold 'cause it's situated
in a very hot engine bay.......maybe the new bonnet vents will help this year! ::)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 29, November, 2015, 07:42:52 AM
Yes, production cars usually feed the matrix with air from the outside. Some use a large diameter pipe. My heater is under the dash and shielded from the engine bay taking air from the cockpit area. The matrix has facility to fit a cowling and large diameter pipe so air can be accessed from elsewhere
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: paintman on 29, November, 2015, 07:16:23 PM
I just turn it off and remove the side screens if I get too hot......that's easier! :P
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Iancider on 29, November, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
Benchmark

Will this now cure your overheating problems do you think?
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Gary RH7 on 29, November, 2015, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 29, November, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
Benchmark

Will this now cure your overheating problems do you think?

Ian,
That crossed my mind as I have an overheating problem also. I was talking over it with Dave G when I was round his place and it suddenly hit me. Where I blocked off the pipes that would feed the internal heater I probably blocked off the return flow path somehow and there is air trapped. There should be a parallel path for when the heater is cut off.

Something I am working on.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 29, November, 2015, 10:23:56 PM
You could try and connect what would be the heater feed pipe to the return. Sort of a loop, as you might do if you had a leaky matrix and so bypassing the heater.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 29, November, 2015, 10:43:54 PM
Keanu always said there was sumfin dodgy about that matrix  ;D
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 04, December, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
I've got Ratbag's heater all plumbed in now and tried it out. Works very well, didn't go out anywhere but all looking good so far. Need to fit an operating cable to the water tap and get a switch for the fan. A few other things to do while I'm there, but I am now warm. :D :D
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Gary RH7 on 05, December, 2015, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 04, December, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
I've got Ratbag's heater all plumbed in now and tried it out. Works very well, didn't go out anywhere but all looking good so far. Need to fit an operating cable to the water tap and get a switch for the fan. A few other things to do while I'm there, but I am now warm. :D :D
Got any pictures Dave. Would be interesting to see how you put it all together
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 12, December, 2015, 03:10:38 PM
Went out in Ratbag to try the heater with sidescreens on, the heater is really effective. The sidescreens are crap, so back to the drawing board! Got another idea in my head, so here we go again! Tried it without sidescreens, just roof and still good.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: paintman on 12, December, 2015, 05:28:57 PM
I have a 1.5" flexible pipe coming from the heater which I push up my trouser legs or in my jacket.  :-* :-* nice and warm!
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 12, December, 2015, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: paintman on 12, December, 2015, 05:28:57 PM
I have a 1.5" flexible pipe coming from the heater which I push up my trouser legs or in my jacket.  :-* :-* nice and warm!

Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D :D :D 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 12, December, 2015, 06:20:58 PM
I have 2 closeable outlets just in front of the gearstick, pointing at the knees. 2 more outlets, so far unused but waiting to be ducted somewhere and 1 more outlet earmarked for a demister. :D
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: paintman on 12, December, 2015, 07:22:37 PM
1 up each leg.......perfect!!! ;)
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 12, December, 2015, 07:43:02 PM
I might have long flexible duct for use in thawing out '7' types I find on the side of the road!  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: damouk on 16, December, 2015, 07:07:32 PM
That's a bit se7ist isn't it Dave lol
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: benchmark51 on 16, December, 2015, 07:17:30 PM
Ok, can do the 'exoskelly cars' as well  ;D ;D.
Title: Re: Heater for Ratbag
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 16, December, 2015, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 16, December, 2015, 07:17:30 PM
Ok, can do the 'exoskelly cars' as well  ;D ;D.
Yeah we will most likely be more in need Dave!!