Thinking about a change! opinions please?

[mikebishop]

hi,

thinking about a change, was just after some opinions and advice?
what do people think.

i've never driven a BEC but know FHO has one.

i want something for sunday drives and trackdays.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK-Indy-ZX9R-kitcar-BEC-/231834821863?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

[Gary RH7]

I'm no expert on the car but it does look tidy and well made.

['The Gaffer']

Having owned both car engined cars CEC and Bike engine too BEC. The differences are light and day but in short. Easy going or fast road touring with some quick track days = Tuned car engine. Frantic fun, little more work in traffic, great sound, and fun track days = Bike engine. Bike engine needs more work to drive as less torque but it's not a deal-breaker. Getting sound test passes with a BEC are a bit harder but certainly not impossible. Reverse or lack of it can sometimes be problematic but at high revs with clutch-less up and down shifts with auto blip on downshifts, a trackday really comes to life.  Car engines on the other hand are generally more civilised plus are easier to live with and make for the majority of kit cars for that reason.

Horses for courses really

The car you spotted there is over a 3 hour drive. I would certainly look over a kit in person before you decide to buy.

[Facial Hair Optional]

Where to start with this one!!?? I could write pages (but won't - don't panic!). Gaffer is right, horses for courses. Being lucky enough to own both it's a no brainer for me, BEC every time for the use you specified, having said that I would be over the moon to own Colin's Westie (for example)!

In a recent post Ian mentioned they were hard to drive in traffic (or maybe he said hardER I'm not 100% sure on that) but I have to say in my opinion it's more a case of learning to drive them differently. They have a clutch pedal and an accelerator pedal the same as most other cars, it's just they are very, very light to the touch and so you need to 're-learn' how to use them.

I think it also depends on the actual car, for example the ASBO is easier to drive in traffic than the Fury but not as easy as the Tiger (which is arguably the easiest fast car I have ever driven!) In my opinion BEC's are not hard to drive in traffic, as soon as you learn that you MUST slip the clutch to pull away without stalling (due to having little or no flywheel I believe?)

I have been in two or 3 BEC's and I have to say the 1st one I hated, the ASBO I fell in love with in seconds, it is truly awesome to drive. The best thing Mike is to drive a few if you can but don't expect to get to grips with it the second you get in it. I stalled the ASBO numerous times pulling out of junctions particularly if on an uphill slope and the revvy-ness takes getting used to - I was changing gear at 6,000rpm for a while until I started to look at the revcounter and realised that I was not even halfway through the rev range!! The ASBO is quite noisy as the engine and the air intakes are inches from your ears, I found a front engined 7 style BEC to be a lot quieter when I went it one.

At the mo both me and the ASBO are off the road but the minute I am back on with it you are very welcome to come for a drive and see for yourself what a BEC is all about. Just bear in mind that a 7 style BEC may well be different again. The ASBO is mid-engined and is chain driven as it is in the same orientation as it was on the bike whereas most BEC's the engined is twisted through 90 degrees, prop driven and in the front.

As the Gaffer says it makes quite a bit of difference if you have a flatshifter with blip etc (I can HIGHLY recommend that!!!!!!) and I would not be without my reverse (Quaiffe ATB LSD from a Radical!! I know - spoiled or what!!) but any reverse is better than none in my opinion. And don't forget they rev like crazy so it is a very different, more 'raw' or 'primal' experience, I LOVE IT... 13,000 revs!!!!!!!! The ASBO does 60mph+ in 1st gear!!!

The main benefit for track as far as I see it is something Ian touched on ages ago, to increase your power to weight you can increase the power or lower the cars weight (or both for the pedantic amongst us!). Lowering the weight in my opinon is always better because you get not just increased power to weight and faster acceleration but crucially also better handling, later braking, better turn in and quicker stopping and THAT is one of the MAJOR benefits of a BEC on track (or road for that matter).

I have never been in a car that stopped so quickly as the day Andrew stepped on the anchors with no hands on the wheel to demo to me how well it did it! Startingly short pull up which was only bettered by the way he did zero to 70 mph flat out with no clutch and only got into 2nd gear! I will never forget that moment!

All I can say mate is go and try a few and see what you think. Make sure you buy a good one though and come out in mine just as soon as I am back on the road.

I do believe Steve Fullpint's 7 is a BEC? He will know more about it than I do so maybe give him a shout. I have seen him drive his on the way to Kemble last year and he knows what he is doing I can assure you!! It's a very quick car and it pulls up very fast indeed, I still remember his 'bullet-like' approach speed as he pulled up to meet me and Gary in the layby as we waited to go to Kemble for the TVR meeting that day and the sound was amazing!

What is one of the best sounds in the world you will ever hear?? A BEC being started up and blipped! Even the starter motor sounds awesome! 

PS.  I lied about not writing pages!! 

[Crunchie Gears]

The sound of BECsare fantastic.  I have not owned a BEC but do have alight CEC (400Kgs) and the braking and dynamics are fantastic.  You cannot beat physics.

I have the Light weight car up for sale as it is too extreme for me for road use.  Part of the issue is the great dynamics are not often used on the road as you would have to drive like a maniac to exploit them.  Just my opinion.

I would take FHO's offer up nod try some CEC cars too 

That said the MK looks good

[mikebishop]

Hi,

thanks for the advice (essay FHO  ), which i would love to take you up on the your offer when your better and the weather is more favourable.

i think, like people are saying, i need to drive and experience the BEC's for myself..

so for now i think i  keep the tiger and do some track days and gain more Knowledge from people on here, 

i love the idea of owning one but have limited knowledge and am worried about them being fragile as Lucky ed said..   

like people are saying its horses for courses, so i think i need to research more and i don't buy a lemon..

[sanzomat]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Z-car-set-up-YAMAHA-R1-Bike-Engined-Car-Road-use-v5-present-0r-Great-track-car/281926997339

Here's a cheapo BEC project. Based on A GTM Rossa mk2.

This car has the very desirable Z-cars rear suspension set up but it does raise the question of how much weight a BEC can cope with. The Rossa isn't the lightest of kit cars so would show up the torque issues more and see what has happened - the engine mountings have broken on the R1 engine. Seller says its an easy fix but not so sure. It does make you think about the stresses that will go through the engine casing when its trying to push along something four times the weight of an R1

[Facial Hair Optional]

Hey Mike, maybe we could go halves ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!... (I wish  )

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/westfield/xtr2/westfield-xtr2-road-registered/5136355

[Iancider]

Wow that is drop-dead gorgeous and at that weight it will be fast.  These are rare but pretty impractical for road use - e.g. the first bump!

What a track car though!

Ian

[Crunchie Gears]

Hey Mike, maybe we could go halves ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!... (I wish  )

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/westfield/xtr2/westfield-xtr2-road-registered/5136355

Thirds that is car porn

[Facial Hair Optional]

Indeed it is! 

At this rate we will all be able to chip in and have it as the BKCC track day pool car!! (not a bad idea that!!)

[Brandy Barrel]

Sorry I just switch off when someone says bike engine, I'm a purist.
Why fit an engine designed for hauling less than 250kg on a vehicle well in excess of twice the weight....
Unless you know your gonna be changing gearboxes and engines regularly.
And of course can do it yourself unless you have very deep pockets.

[Crunchie Gears]

Maybe because it sounds like a F1 car

Flat changes and light weight.  I get it and looked for one until I bought the Westfield FE400 . It was lighter and has a car engine.  It is a trackday peach 

[Facial Hair Optional]

Sorry I just switch off when someone says bike engine, I'm a purist.
Why fit an engine designed for hauling less than 250kg on a vehicle well in excess of twice the weight....
Unless you know your gonna be changing gearboxes and engines regularly.
And of course can do it yourself unless you have very deep pockets.

Mine is 427kg on the IVA papers, max 460kg as is now. And I have to say bike engines are designed to haul much more that 250kg too! The bike, two big blokes - rider and pillion? Way more then 250kg, in fact getting on for the weight of a very light BEC with just the driver in it  The two guys alone could very easily be 250kg! Just because that's what a bike weighs doesnt mean that's all they can do, if it were they would be operating on the edge of reliabilty all the time and they aren't. I guess Radical couldn't afford to use car engines in their very slow cars?   

As has been said before many times, horses for courses. Maybe we should all go back to having Ford crossflow engines in our kit cars, that'd be even more purist? 

[Moleman]

Nice right up Steve.    I have never driven a BEC kit but ones like the Asbo are lovely. You can get some lovely 7 stile BEC's too the only issue I think is getting them through noise tests for track day's but once you have sorted that then you won't have any problems. That said you can also get some nice car engine kits that are just as quick in speed & acceleration, it all comes down to what the spec of the car that you are looking at. 

[mikebishop]

Hey Mike, maybe we could go halves ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!... (I wish  )

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/westfield/xtr2/westfield-xtr2-road-registered/5136355

Wow look amazing....

Bet that would be fun on track!!!

[Facial Hair Optional]

Nice right up Steve.    I have never driven a BEC kit but ones like the Asbo are lovely. You can get some lovely 7 stile BEC's too the only issue I think is getting them through noise tests for track day's but once you have sorted that then you won't have any problems. That said you can also get some nice car engine kits that are just as quick in speed & acceleration, it all comes down to what the spec of the car that you are looking at. 

Thank you Colin.

I agree with you about CECs and BECs, it's more a question of evaluating each individual car than one type versus the other. I didn't buy the ASBO because it was a BEC, I bought it because first and foremost in my eyes it is a thing of beauty, the fact it is a BEC was secondary - until I went out in it! Now I can't imagine it with a car engine in, the GSX-R1000 engine suits it soooooooo well.

All engines have their plus points and their minus points so it is very much personal taste as to what will suit you. Two of my cars have to go and one of them ain't gonna be the ASBO! Yes it is noisy and raw but that is what I love about it. I always wanted a motorcycle but at my age I would be dead within no time, this gives me the sound, the speed, the sheer thrill of a bike but with 4 tyres on the ground and I don't even have to wear a helmet if I choose not to! There is just something I find really exciting about BECs and that is a rare thing on British roads today.

['The Gaffer']

There is just something I find really exciting about BECs and that is a rare thing on British roads today.

Agreed, well summed up