Bristol Kit Car Club and Forum - BKCC

Non Kit Car Section. Sports, Specialist, Performance and Classics => Talk About Sports Performance and Classic cars here => Topic started by: robp on 13, November, 2012, 05:32:58 PM

Title: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 13, November, 2012, 05:32:58 PM
I have just got hold of an old Spitfire.  I briefly mentioned in Bluehornetrider's Spitfire thread but I thought I'd better start a new one. 

(http://s17.postimage.org/lhs5zmbbv/Spitfire.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lhs5zmbbv/)

Picked it up from Cornwall last week and had quite a journey home through blue skies, heavy rain, hail and snow.  The hood on the car is quite old and doesn't fit very well.  Consequently the interior was soaked by the time I got back to Bristol.

Next job was to get it in the garage.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 13, November, 2012, 05:37:21 PM
Finally in the garage.

(http://s14.postimage.org/o800zayyl/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/o800zayyl/)

The garage is located in a lane behind the houses.  Getting the trailer on to the lane was difficult enough.  Getting the car off the trailer and into the garage was even worse.  I had to use the Westfield to tow the trailer sideways, push the Spitfire into the garage and then pull the trailer straight again.  All done now but suddenly my garage is full up.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 13, November, 2012, 05:52:54 PM
OK, managed to have a closer look at the car.

Good news:  Chassis, sills, floor and backend are solid.
Bad: Front wings, door skins need replacing.  A pillars are solid but need some attention.  Engine tired.  Rear brakes seized.  Bash with a lump hammer won't free off one of them which made moving the car a right pain.

The starter was spinning over but not turning the engine.  Took it off and cleaned up the inertia mechanism and engine was turning over, slowly.  Got sparks.  Put a fat battery on it but engine not turning over any faster.  I wonder if the starter motor is tired.  May ask if someone has a spare to try before I fork out on a replacement unit.

No fuel getting through anyway.  Plus the fuel in the tank is years old.

Decided to stop mucking about and get on with a plan to get the car ready for the Spring.  Initially I wanted to tackle the bodywork.  However, I decided to get the oily bits sorted first.  Engine compartment ain't pretty.  First thing, carbs.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 13, November, 2012, 05:54:30 PM
Sounds like it was a task and a half mate..Still good to see its in the garage.. Liking those twin pipes coming out from underneath  8)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Grin-a-lot on 13, November, 2012, 06:55:30 PM
Are you training to be like Hairy Santa and BulldogBri?  Perhaps you should change your name to BulldogSanta?

Looks like a great project though, when you get your hotrod you'll have a properly full garage!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 13, November, 2012, 07:33:10 PM
Hope it goes nice & smoothly for you mate. I mean Bulldogsanta.  ;D :P ;D :P
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Hairy Santa on 13, November, 2012, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: robp on 13, November, 2012, 05:52:54 PM
OK, managed to have a closer look at the car.

Good news:  Chassis, sills, floor and backend are solid.
Bad: Front wings, door skins need replacing.  A pillars are solid but need some attention.  Engine tired.  Rear brakes seized.  Bash with a hammer won't free off one of them which made moving the car a right pain.

The starter was spinning over but not turing the engine.  Took it off and cleaned up the inertia mechanism and engine was turning over, slowly.  Got sparks.  Put a fat battery on it but engine not turning over any faster.  I wonder if the start is tired.  May ask if someone has a spare to try before I fork out on a replacement unit.


No fuel getting through anyway.  Plus the fuel in the tank is years old.

Decided to stop mucking about and get on with a plan to get the car ready for the Spring.  Initially I wanted to tackle the bodywork.  However, I decided to get the oily bits sorted first.  Engine compartment ain't pretty.  First thing, carbs.







Your my Hero Rob
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 13, November, 2012, 08:26:31 PM
Rob,

Like it - very different types of open top motoring.  Good project for the Winter.

Adrian
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 13, November, 2012, 09:05:29 PM
Another good project there chap :D

I'm after a Triumph too, but a Stag ;)

trouble is, I ain't no money magnet :(
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 13, November, 2012, 09:43:57 PM
Had the carbs off and cleaned up (they were filthy!).  Look at lot better now.  Before and after photo to follow  ;)

Anyone know about SU carbs?  These are 1 1/2" HS4.  The fuel line that joins the bottom of the float chamber to the main jet tube has come loose (at the jet end).  I guess that means a new main jet tube.  Mine has the Waxstat type of jet that was used after 1976.  It has a thermostat installed at the bottom, which moves the jet up or down depending on the outside temperature.  Fixed jet to the left, waxstat jet to the right:

(http://s16.postimage.org/6yop8r6zl/Bottom_of_carb.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6yop8r6zl/)

It's been years since I've played with carbs.  All laptops and injection systems nowadays. :D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 13, November, 2012, 10:38:39 PM
Your spit has lots of bits I'd like for mine, like the twin pipes.   :P
All the spit forums suggest replacing the unreliable wax stats on the carbs.   I have the same twin su's in mine. 
I'm stripping the engine at the moment so have only cleaned the exterior of the carbs and the pots. 
I need all new fuel and breather pipe connections as the originals have gone missing. 
I have a few spare starter motors but don't know which ones are good and which need scrapping.  I have seen new ones on eBay for around £60.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 14, November, 2012, 01:04:54 PM
Nice updates Rob, keep the pics coming 8)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 14, November, 2012, 02:17:07 PM
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 13, November, 2012, 10:38:39 PM
All the spit forums suggest replacing the unreliable wax stats on the carbs.   I have the same twin su's in mine. 
Yes, I'll probably replace the waxstat part with a couple of 1p coins. However one of the jet tubes is knackered so many have to buy replacements anyway.

Quote from: bluehornetrider on 13, November, 2012, 10:38:39 PM
I have a few spare starter motors but don't know which ones are good and which need scrapping.
Thanks.  I've kicked off on the engine now so it'll be a while before I attempt another start.  Carbs stripped and cleaned.  Rocker shaft off, dismantled, cleaned.  Number of parts starting to build up on the bench.  Hopefully I'll have the head off and stripped over the next week.  I used to have a valve lapper which fitted to an electric drill.  Searched high and low for it last night.  Looks like it's going to be the wooden slick with suction cup and some elbow grease.

Once the head is off I'll have to decide to tackle the bottom end or leave it until next winter.  Can't be that difficult? http://bristolkitcarclub.co.uk/smf2/index.php?topic=2145.0;topicseen (http://bristolkitcarclub.co.uk/smf2/index.php?topic=2145.0;topicseen)

I'm making good progress at the moment.  Not sure how long it'll last.  I just have the odd hour or 30 minutes here and there.  Got to keep SWMBO happy.  I've told her the car is for her to use next summer and I've got to make sure it's running well for her and looking good!  ;)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 14, November, 2012, 03:46:33 PM
I'm Guilty of using a drill to grind in the valves by fitting the drill directly on the end of the valve allowing for a small amount of in and out movement and then spinning it and just adding small amounts of grinding paste while its turning, I got so fed up with the suction stick keep falling off.  >:(

8)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 22, November, 2012, 10:35:38 AM
Gradually making progress on the car.  I've got the manifolds off and cleaned up.  The exhaust and inlet manifolds are bolted together but unfortunately one connection has sheered off but I doubt this affect anything too much.  Water pump, pump housing and thermostat cover off.  Not a pretty sight inside.  Started cleaning all the crap off both inside and out.  I'm going to need a new pipe from the pump to the heater as the old one just fell apart.

Got a delivery of a few new parts.  On is a fixed jet kit for the carbs to replace my knackered waxstats so I can finally reassemble the carbs.  Getting quite a pile of bits on the bench in the garage now so I'm keen to sort stuff out as it comes off the car before removing anything else.  The cylinder head is ready to come off but I'll probably wait until I've had the radiator (and surrounds) off and inspected.  Really enjoying the rebuild so far and lookig forward to when everything starts coming back together again (whenever that is!)

Quote from: fullpint on 17, November, 2012, 02:01:12 PM
Black brush on paint will be fine for the block.. ;)
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 15, November, 2012, 12:48:25 PM
The spray paint is a mixture of high temp paint and ceramic engine paint, I got one from halfords and the other from my local motor supplier.

I've got to paint head, block, water pump housing, timing cover, etc.  What do you guys think I should use?  Engine paint?, 'Black brush on paint'?  Excuse my ignorance. Any advice?
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 22, November, 2012, 04:33:06 PM
I've just sprayed the head with anti rust paint then high temp black spray paint and it looks good, I'll try to post some pictures later, I bought some black hammer finish hammerite brush on for the block and will try that when I get round to it.
I sprayed the manifold with the high temp paint and after a few coats has come up nicely.
I sprayed the manifold cover ceramic paint red but not sure how well it will last on the ally.
(http://s12.postimage.org/6qy2uebx5/Freshly_painted_rocker_cover.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6qy2uebx5/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/brwxa6ped/Exhaust_manifold_high_temp_painted.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/brwxa6ped/)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 29, November, 2012, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 22, November, 2012, 04:33:06 PM
I've just sprayed the head with anti rust paint then high temp black spray paint and it looks good, I'll try to post some pictures later, I bought some black hammer finish hammerite brush on for the block and will try that when I get round to it.
I sprayed the manifold with the high temp paint and after a few coats has come up nicely.
I sprayed the manifold cover ceramic paint red but not sure how well it will last on the ally.
Many thanks for the advice. I bought some high temp paint for the exhaust and some other stuff for the engine.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 29, November, 2012, 02:11:18 PM
Not pretty :o

(http://s14.postimage.org/57we4zocd/2012_11_25_11_47_44.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/57we4zocd/)

Also, bolt sheared off on the thermostat cover.  Stud extractor or just drill it out and re-tap?

(http://s9.postimage.org/5zvahwm8b/2012_11_29_12_44_08_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5zvahwm8b/)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 29, November, 2012, 05:51:59 PM
 :o WD40 a bit of heat and a good pair of mole-grips!! That may work..
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 29, November, 2012, 07:28:29 PM
Nah! Lots of heat with a blow torch chap (not oxyacetylene though :o). Heat works so much better than WD40 in my humble opinion. I've freed off 'impossibly seized' stuff using my trusty blowtorch.

Just as a side point, WD40 is not actually really that good at releasing seriously seized stuff, the best thing for that is proper penetrating fluid, works much better I've found.

HTH :)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: 'Mendip Wurzel' on 29, November, 2012, 09:02:49 PM
If really stiff I have ended up cutting a slot in the top and welding in a piece of metal as a tee bar.   
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 30, November, 2012, 04:22:48 PM
Your water pump looks just like mine did when I took it apart, the 3mm layer or orange flaky crap was quite impressive, I'm pretty sure it's what took mine off the road about 30 years ago! ???

If you get some penetrating spray from a car parts centre it freezes the rust and makes it expand popping the seized parts apart, sometimes takes a few goes though.  The heat works by expanding the metal parts the cooling to loosen the parts but can be detrimental to the parts being removed.

When I get around to putting mine back together I'll be using waterless coolant after a flush through with evans flush.  Give the old girl a chance at keeping cool.  If my block is this bad I hope the rad is easier to clean out.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 10, December, 2012, 04:44:39 PM
This weekend I finally managed to get the cylinder head off the engine.  I have stripped down the head and started cleaning the valves in preparation for lapping.  The deposits on the exhaust valves certainly took some shifting!  I noticed a few of the valves have rough surfaces on the sealing faces which probably (hopefully) explains the lack of compression.  This is only on a few of the valves and could be due to the fact they were in the open position for years while the car was laid up. 

Once the head work is completed I'll focus on the bottom end.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 19, December, 2012, 11:01:23 AM
Finished main work on the cylinder head.  Blimey, those valves took some lapping.  All back together now.  I left it on the bench upside down and filled the combustion chambers with white spirit.  I was fairly happy when I came back the next morning to find 3 of the 4 still full.  One of the inlet valves had leaked.  Took it apart and gave it a little more lapping.  All back together, re-tested and bingo!  Just need to paint the head now and I can put it over in the increasingly large pile of parts that are cleaned and refurbed. 8)

Before:
(http://s13.postimage.org/c11j78clf/Spit_Head_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/c11j78clf/)

After:
(http://s2.postimage.org/v74m452id/Spit_Head_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v74m452id/)

Next job is to clean up the bottom end.  Piston crowns need carbon deposits cleaning off.  I don't want to get any crap down the sides of the pistons or into the oil galleries.  Advice anyone?  Grease around pistons?

Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 19, December, 2012, 11:18:54 AM
Quote from: robp on 19, December, 2012, 11:01:23 AM
Finished main work on the cylinder head.  Blimey, those valves took some lapping.  All back together now.  I left it on the bench upside down and filled the combustion chambers with white spirit.  I was fairly happy when I came back the next morning to find 3 of the 4 still full.  One of the inlet valves had leaked.  Took it apart and gave it a little more lapping.  All back together, re-tested and bingo!  Just need to paint the head now and I can put it over in the increasingly large pile of parts that are cleaned and refurbed. 8)

Before:
(http://s13.postimage.org/c11j78clf/Spit_Head_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/c11j78clf/)

After:
(http://s2.postimage.org/v74m452id/Spit_Head_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v74m452id/)

Next job is to clean up the bottom end.  Piston crowns need carbon deposits cleaning off.  I don't want to get any crap down the sides of the pistons or into the oil galleries.  Advice anyone?  Grease around pistons?

Rob,

Good job - busy busy

Adrian
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 19, December, 2012, 04:49:47 PM
Quote from: MarlboroCar on 19, December, 2012, 11:18:54 AM
Rob,

Good job - busy busy

Adrian

I may have to down tools on the Spit for a while soon.  The Westfield needs it's winter overhaul.  Nothing major.  Fluid changes and a thorough check over.  Particularly want to focus on the rear end.  Rear suspension wishbones and chassis.  I have the 2004 chassis so good to check all the welds especially around the diff.  Clean everything up and get POR 15 on any areas that the power coating is lifting off.  Fortunately, my inoculation for upgradeitis still seems to be working.  Just a set of new rear dampers and that'll be it.  I like the reliability of the current car spec.  Once the work is done, it's MOT time and then wait for 2013 trackdays to start!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 19, December, 2012, 06:15:12 PM
Progress is looking good on the Spit - I'm looking forward to your ' Ed China moment' in the spring!

I've been busy with the Mac1, I've rose jointed the rear lower wishbones to get rid of the nasty toe out I had, and replaced 12mm bolts in the rear suspension bushes with half inch UNF's to get rid of any slop I had. It involved quite a bit of drilling but now it's all as tight as a duck's arse. Also have finished putting on the Wilwood upgrade today, looks as sexy as..... , but am now waiting for some 5mm wheel spacers to push my 13" wheels away from the calipers as they just fowl. Soon be ready for a test run before the MOT and a visit to Track Developments to get it all set up ready for next year 8)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 19, December, 2012, 06:53:08 PM
Nothng like having a good clean head.. Cracking job mate..
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 31, December, 2012, 04:37:10 PM
Just cleaning up the radiator.  The old paint on the top had bubbled up in places and crumbling.  I've cleaned most of it off.  Looks like brass or something underneath.  What do I need to do to paint it?  What sort of paint should I use?

(http://s13.postimage.org/xegt7wn43/Rad.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xegt7wn43/)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 31, December, 2012, 06:26:46 PM
Bit of engine paint  would be fine of good old hammerite  ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 05, January, 2013, 10:46:04 PM
Quote from: fullpint on 31, December, 2012, 06:26:46 PM
Bit of engine paint  would be fine of good old hammerite  ;D

Thanks for the advice. Hammerite smooth on and looking good.

I've been under the back of the Westfield this afternoon.  There are a couple of small areas where the power coating had lifted off the chassis.  I've rubbed them down and got some POR-15 on.  Great stuff but you have to be careful.  Sticks to everything like the proverbial s**t to a blanket.  Must have dripped some on the floor and then lay in it whilst moving around underneath the car.  I now have a 1" diameter patch of black POR-15 dried to the back of my head.  What a t*t!   ??? ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 06, January, 2013, 07:30:52 AM
 :D :D :D You best not go paint balling then with that 1 inch target dot on the back of your head  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hammerite is stuff stuff..
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 06, January, 2013, 04:36:40 PM
Good job you ain't got long hair then Rob.  ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 06, January, 2013, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: Moleman on 06, January, 2013, 04:36:40 PM
Good job you ain't got long hair then Rob.  ;D

Would probably be better if I had some hair.  Black paint patch certainly stands out on a bald head!  ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, January, 2013, 05:22:30 PM
I have spent a few hours in the garage today.  Two cars in pieces at the moment.  Loads to do. ???

(http://s2.postimage.org/tsua584l1/2013_01_08_09_25_42.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tsua584l1/)

About halfway there on the Westfield.  Got to have this car ready.  Backend is finished.  Diff oil topped up and chassis and suspension checked over.  I'm currently halfway through an oil and filter change.  Dead easy on most motors but a little more fun on the Westfield with its dry sump.  Have to drain the sump as usual (not a lot in there) but also have to drain the oil tank.  There is no drain plug so I disconnect the lower fitting and then take the top half off the tank and clean out what is left.  Flushed out breather tank.  Remote filter is well hidden.  Once the oil is done I want to make some changes to the Tech-Edge system and recalibrate the lambda sensor.  Next will be MOT.

I've nearly finished the first stage of work on the Spitfire.  Basically, I'm not planning on taking anything else off in the engine bay.  Nearly everything is ready for re-assembly.  It will be great to get everything back together again and cross fingers the engine will fire up.  There are a few new parts I need; fuel pump, carb heat shield, starter motor, various pipes and fittings.  Also, how do I dispose of the old fuel in the car?  There are a few gallons.

Once I have the engine running well I want to sort out the rear brakes and then it'll be time to start on the bodywork.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 08, January, 2013, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: robp on 08, January, 2013, 05:22:30 PM
Also, how do I dispose of the old fuel in the car?  There are a few gallons.

You are quite a resourceful guy Rob.. how about making one of these to get rid of your old fuel :D

Homemade flamethrower V2.0 at night (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t20ofDn4QEs#)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 28, January, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
Finally warm enough to get in the garage. 

(http://s14.postimage.org/70lsqz2b1/2013_01_26_12_04_34.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/70lsqz2b1/)

Got the head on and torqued down.  Push rods and rocker shaft on too.  Refurbed engine is starting to make the scuttle look really tatty.  Well that is going to have to wait until next winter.  Just reminds me what state everything was in when I started. 

(http://s9.postimage.org/lpd6sb8nv/2013_01_26_12_47_03.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lpd6sb8nv/)

I've managed to fit the fixed jet conversion to one of the SU carbs.  Right fiddley job too.  I knew it was going to be fun when I read the instructions.  Statements like 'this is the most frustrating part of the job' and 'try to leave this to a person with a large amount of patience'.  It is definately one of those jobs that as soon as it starts getting annoying, just walk away and try another day.  Anyway, one carb is done (I think).  Not totally happy with the choke movement so I'll have another look at when I have some more time.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 28, January, 2013, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: 'The Gaffer' on 08, January, 2013, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: robp on 08, January, 2013, 05:22:30 PM
Also, how do I dispose of the old fuel in the car?  There are a few gallons.

You are quite a resourceful guy Rob.. how about making one of these to get rid of your old fuel :D


Love it, Phil!  That looks amazing.   :D

I've got hold of an electric fuel pump so I'll connect that up and pump all the old fuel into a jerry can.  Then decide how to get shot of it.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 30, January, 2013, 04:37:22 PM
I have a spare spitfire fuel pump if you still need one.  Been working on mine today, put the engine back together and the last cylinder head stud sheared off whilst torqueing it down, >:( have fitted the water pump and the distributor.  I have managed to loose the throttle connecting rod for the carbs whilst cleaning the twin su's.   :-[
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 06, February, 2013, 09:40:24 AM
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 30, January, 2013, 04:37:22 PM
I have a spare spitfire fuel pump if you still need one.
Thanks very much.  I may take you up on that offer.  I haven't made much progress on the fuel side.  Old fuel line was old and perished.  Can't get new stuff on to fuel pump fittings.  Carb end is fine.  We'll get there.

Quote from: bluehornetrider on 30, January, 2013, 04:37:22 PM
I have managed to loose the throttle connecting rod for the carbs whilst cleaning the twin su's.   :-[
Got me worried here too.  All my throttle and choke linkages ended up all over the floor when I dropped the box they were in.  Hopefully haven't lost anything.  ::)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 06, February, 2013, 09:43:58 AM
In the garage last night and got the manifolds back on and the rad in.

(http://s4.postimage.org/uzeru1lx5/2013_02_05_21_11_41.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/uzeru1lx5/)

Ordered a few parts from Canley Classics which should see me though to getting the car going.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 06, February, 2013, 12:53:24 PM
Looks lovely and clean.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 06, February, 2013, 01:10:29 PM
Is it Bummble Bee from Transformers. Lol.

Looking great, Love Black and Yellow together.

8)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 06, February, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
Quote from: 'The Gaffer' on 06, February, 2013, 12:53:24 PM
Looks lovely and clean.

Quote from: bulldog bri on 06, February, 2013, 01:10:29 PM
Looking great, Love Black and Yellow together.

Thanks guys.  Really enjoying the rebuild at the moment.  Not getting too excited at the moment though.  Waiting until new starter arrives and I get a good compression test plus, of course, when the old girl fires up for the first time!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 06, February, 2013, 09:22:12 PM
Black & yellow is A good choise.  :P
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Grin-a-lot on 07, February, 2013, 09:37:43 AM
Thats some progress you've made in this cold weather, looking forward to seeing it on the road sometime!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 07, February, 2013, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: robp on 06, February, 2013, 09:43:58 AM
Ordered a few parts from Canley Classics which should see me though to getting the car going.  Can't wait!
Well, quick delivery from Canley's; stuff arrived at lunchtime.  No water return pipe; it's on back order.  Hope is not fractured when it does turn up.
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 21, December, 2012, 07:47:35 PM
I received the water return pipe today and it looks great until uder a bright light I happened to notice a small fracture along the top of the bend ???
(http://s12.postimage.org/gt20mdubd/water_return_pipe_stainless_steel_001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gt20mdubd/)
Everything else there though.  Best bit was a new (recon) starter motor.  Could resist getting down the garage to connect it up and do a compression check (sad t**t!) to see if all that work on the engine was worth it.  Well, it doesn't effing fit! >:(

(http://s18.postimage.org/frj164hn9/2013_02_07_13_50_17.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/frj164hn9/)

You can see in the photo the difference between the old and new starters.  Best contact Canley's and see if there are two types.  I've seen some 1500's with a spacer but it'll need to be about 1/3" thick to get the right clearance.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 07, February, 2013, 10:48:06 PM
Unlucky Rob, I hate it when that sort of thing happen. >:(
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 08, February, 2013, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: robp on 07, February, 2013, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: robp on 06, February, 2013, 09:43:58 AM
Ordered a few parts from Canley Classics which should see me though to getting the car going.  Can't wait!
Well, quick delivery from Canley's; stuff arrived at lunchtime.  No water return pipe; it's on back order.  Hope is not fractured when it does turn up.
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 21, December, 2012, 07:47:35 PM
I received the water return pipe today and it looks great until uder a bright light I happened to notice a small fracture along the top of the bend ???
(http://s12.postimage.org/gt20mdubd/water_return_pipe_stainless_steel_001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gt20mdubd/)
Everything else there though.  Best bit was a new (recon) starter motor.  Could resist getting down the garage to connect it up and do a compression check (sad t**t!) to see if all that work on the engine was worth it.  Well, it doesn't effing fit! >:(

(http://s18.postimage.org/frj164hn9/2013_02_07_13_50_17.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/frj164hn9/)

You can see in the photo the difference between the old and new starters.  Best contact Canley's and see if there are two types.  I've seen some 1500's with a spacer but it'll need to be about 1/3" thick to get the right clearance.

Rob - that's good work.  I'm enjoying seeing the progress you're making (on both cars).  Knowing BL, they probably just decided to change supplier, couldn't find the design drawings and re-drew things on a Friday morning (never worked Friday pm).

Adrian 
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, February, 2013, 02:59:32 PM
Swapped cars again last night.  Back on the Westfield and back to the 21st century with laptop out. 

Car runs a narrowband lambda sensor with closed loop below 3000rpm (for emissions).  I have added a Techedge 3B1 unit with wideband sensor and dash display.  Last night I switched off lambda compensation on the ECU; heh, I've just passed the MOT no need for that for now! ;)

After calibrating it, I fitted the wideband sensor in the exhaust and got the 3B1 working.  Now I can see what sort of A/F ratio I'm getting when I'm going for it.  This will just be a guide for now as I'll need to set up logging to get some decent data before tweeking the fuel mapping.  Also, I have set up a simulated narrowband output from the Techedge which I'll connect back to the ECU when I have some more time.

Weather forecast looks pretty awful for the weekend so hopefully SHMBO will let me get some more time in the garage.  Got to get the carbs finished off and back on the Spit.  We're over a week into February now.  It'll be Spring before we know it!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 12, February, 2013, 10:17:35 AM
Got my water return pipe though the post today.  Nice shiny stainless.  Hopefully it'll last a little longer than the old one!  Nice bit of bling on the engine  8)  Shame it's hidden under the exhaust manifold!

(http://s12.postimage.org/u0riv28bt/2013_02_11_14_50_26.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/u0riv28bt/)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 12, February, 2013, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 29, November, 2012, 07:28:29 PM
Lots of heat with a blow torch chap (not oxyacetylene though :o). Heat works so much better than WD40 in my humble opinion. I've freed off 'impossibly seized' stuff using my trusty blowtorch.
Got a blow torch on the seized bolt on the thermostat housing.  Worked a treat, JB!


Finally pumped off all the old fuel last night, all 20 litres of the stuff!
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 12, February, 2013, 12:01:07 PM
Glad I was able to offer a little bit of useful advice chap :)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 17, February, 2013, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: robp on 28, January, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
I've managed to fit the fixed jet conversion to one of the SU carbs.  Right fiddley job too.  I knew it was going to be fun when I read the instructions.  Statements like 'this is the most frustrating part of the job' and 'try to leave this to a person with a large amount of patience'.  It is definately one of those jobs that as soon as it starts getting annoying, just walk away and try another day.  Anyway, one carb is done (I think).  Not totally happy with the choke movement so I'll have another look at when I have some more time.

I've had another look at the first carb.   The choke return spring wasn't on quite right.  Tried again and now works perfectly.   :D

Made a start on the second carb now I had the first one for reference.  Much easier after what I had learnt the first time around.  All back together, but, choke movement isn't right.  The main jet tube keeps sticking in the down (choke open) position.  If I disconnect the jet tube fuel line from the bottom of the float chamber, all works perfectly.  If I reconnect it, the bend in the fuel pipe causes the jet tube up/down movement to be a little sticky.  Took everything apart again, cleaned it all up again, back together.  Still the same.   :(


(http://s12.postimage.org/4fxrp5vw9/jet_tube.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4fxrp5vw9/)
Main jet tube; float chamber end on right, carb end bottom.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 17, February, 2013, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: robp on 17, February, 2013, 10:26:24 AM

All back together, but, choke movement isn't right.   :(

Got it!!  :D  Now working perfectly!  Both carbs now on engine.

Just starter motor spacer to get now and it'll be time to start her up!  ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 18, February, 2013, 12:54:31 AM

Good stuff

Adrian
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 18, February, 2013, 04:36:54 PM
 8) Nice when you hear about good progress on a problem solved.. Look forward to the post saying, Chocks away  ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 26, February, 2013, 10:29:23 PM
YES!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Hairy Santa on 27, February, 2013, 12:29:04 AM
Quote from: robp on 26, February, 2013, 10:29:23 PM
YES!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D




I said use the right size hammer  - a big un  ;D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 27, February, 2013, 08:42:03 AM
Well done that man! Don't foget the video of the start-up ;) :D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, February, 2013, 07:31:40 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 27, February, 2013, 08:42:03 AM
Well done that man! Don't foget the video of the start-up ;) :D

Yes, managed to briefly start the engine last night.  It was a bit of a lash up to honest.  Incomplete cooling system, no clamps on fuel lines :o ::), ignition connected straight to the battery, no throttle cable, no choke cable (used mole grips) and lead from starter motor held on the battery terminal to turn it over.  Took a few pulls.  Oil pressure OK.  Fired on rear cylinders initially as that carb kicked in then the whole thing fired up and ran fairly well.  Absolutely delighted.  Certainly brought a smile to my face.  :D

Next step is to finish everything properly (before the thing catches fire!) then start it up again, run it up to temperature and check for leaks, etc.  I will post of video once I've got around to uploading it to YouTube.

Once the engine is finished there is still loads to do.  I want to take it for a quick drive ASAP!  However, rear brakes need some serious TLC so I shouldn't get ahead of myself.  Also, there is the small matter of a seized clutch; any advice on how to free that off gratefully accepted.
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, February, 2013, 07:41:03 PM
The project is running about a month behind schedule.  It will be tempting to start driving it about this spring/summer as it is now but I really want to sort the bodywork first.  New door skins and new front wings plus a few other minor bits.  Then a respray.  Oh, and a new hood.  Err, then the dash and electrics.

:D
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 27, February, 2013, 10:11:17 PM
Good progress Rob! Keep the updates coming :)
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 28, February, 2013, 10:45:50 AM
Quote from: robp on 27, February, 2013, 07:41:03 PM
The project is running about a month behind schedule.  It will be tempting to start driving it about this spring/summer as it is now but I really want to sort the bodywork first.  New door skins and new front wings plus a few other minor bits.  Then a respray.  Oh, and a new hood.  Err, then the dash and electrics.

:D

Rob - you must be well organised.  Measuring schedule delay - you'll be telling us you're using Primavera as your planning software next!!!!  Good news on the start up - not much left to do  ::)

Adrian
Title: Re: Another Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 02, March, 2013, 10:39:29 AM
Looking forward to seeing that video Rob :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, March, 2013, 02:53:07 PM
Managed to find some time to get back in the garage again.  I had a couple of minor jobs to finish off on the boot cover for the Westfield.  Managed to get that done and then re-focus on the Spit.  Here are a couple of photos of before and after.

Before:
(http://s8.postimage.org/da7oujhht/Before1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/da7oujhht/)

After:
(http://s3.postimage.org/s6pk5rd3j/After1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s6pk5rd3j/)
Still have the airbox the attach plus a few others bits and bobs.  Looks much better but the main thing is it now runs.

I've connected everything up properly now.  Couldn't get the engine to turn over on the key though.  Solenoid is clicking but no current is getting through.  Oh well, I'll have a look at that later.  I wanted to get the engine fired up so I just held the main lead from the starter and all was well.  Started well enough but seemed to be running a little rough, like firing on 3.  It was then I noticed that the HD lead from cylinder 4 was connected to a spare spark plug clamped to the side of the engine! ::) :P  Re-connected it to the spark plug in the engine and it then things were much better!

First thing I noticed was the exhaust is blowing.  I tried to tighten the three nuts holding the exhaust manifold to the down pipes.  Sure enough one, despite being loose, wouldn't move.  Another sheared off. :(  Oh well, manifold off.   :( :( :(


(http://s9.postimage.org/4dldmsuob/2013_03_08_14_18_08.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4dldmsuob/)

Any advice on what I should do now?  Tried heating it up to extract (what's left of) the studs.  Shall I just drill and re-tap?  Is that OK in cast iron?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 08, March, 2013, 03:29:09 PM
Hi Rob.

If there is enough of the stud sticking out, try popping a nut over the top, a couple of spots of weld to it, then try extracting it that way. The heat from the welding may be enough to crack the corrosion, but if not then hit it with a good blow torch flame for a couple of minutes and that should sort it ;)

I've very rarely had heat fail me on unseizing stuff :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 17, March, 2013, 10:23:58 AM
Studs out eventually.  Re-tapped holes and fitted new studs.

(http://s7.postimage.org/stex7dh3r/2013_03_16_15_40_50.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/stex7dh3r/)

Got the everything back together and fired the engine up.  Much quieter now. :D

The choke operation seems very stiff.  It's difficult to operate from the cockpit so I'll have another look at that sometime.  Also, engine coughs everything I try to rev it up which needs to be sorted out.  Any ideas what would cause that?

I've refurbed the rear brakes now.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, one offside rear brake was seized on.  Backing off the adjuster screw and bashing with a lump hammer still wouldn't free it up.  Ended up cutting the old drum off!  All back together with new parts and working.  Lost one of the pins for the handbrake so I'll have to have a look around for that sometime.

Anyway, now with the engine running and the brakes working it would be rude not to take the Spit for a quick spin.  ::) ;)  Didn't get too far though.  Foot on the clutch and it wouldn't move at all!  Rock hard pedal!  :(  Have to see what's up when I'm back in the garage again.  Probably master cylinder.  :(
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 17, March, 2013, 11:02:20 AM
Sounds like you are having fun there Rob. I'm enjoying your posts.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, March, 2013, 04:11:08 PM
Quote from: robp on 17, March, 2013, 10:23:58 AM
Foot on the clutch and it wouldn't move at all!  Rock hard pedal!  :(  Have to see what's up when I'm back in the garage again.  Probably master cylinder.  :(

Yep, clutch master cylinder seized.  Once I'll taken it off the car, I thought I'll clean up and re-paint the bracket it's mounted to.  Then I thought I might as well do the brake master cylinder bracket while I'm at it.  Then I thought the wiper motor looked bad.  The scuttle looks tatty too. 

It's easy to see why a simple job can soon expand into alot more work!  ???

(http://s18.postimage.org/yo83so9dx/2013_03_19_17_57_20.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yo83so9dx/)
Title: Re: Another Spit
Post by: robp on 21, March, 2013, 04:02:49 PM
There was something I missed in the budget this week.  Apart from the cancellation of fuel duty rise there was more good news with the announcement that the Government's cut-off date for classic cars' tax exemption will now be extended by one year, meaning cars produced in 1973 will now be tax exempt. 

There's no word yet on whether this extension will continue to roll forward in future years, though.  If it does, that's only SIX YEARS to go until my Spit is tax exempt!   ::)

Hopefully have the old motor on the road by then!  :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 22, March, 2013, 09:22:05 AM
Good news, I think my spit was right on the cut-off so didn't know if I'd get away with it or not.  April 1973, I will be running it on black and silver plates though :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 22, March, 2013, 02:35:28 PM
Check out this shed of a Spitfire..

It is being stored in the garage, not my car but it's owner says he would like to do it up one day. It's beyond it if you ask me but he says it has sentimental value :D :-X.


(http://s3.postimg.org/qcndiofkf/IMAG0066.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qcndiofkf/)

(http://s3.postimg.org/7ycuep39r/IMAG0067.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7ycuep39r/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 22, March, 2013, 06:29:35 PM
I have just bought a tin of high temp engine paint on ebay. Haven't tried it yet but looks good on test piece. I have got all the old layers off the block(several). I will be spraying it on rather than brush though. The tin says 250ml will be enough, we'll see.  ;D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 24, March, 2013, 04:56:13 PM
That black spit looks a lot more up together than mine, a MK3 hard top spit.  bit of polish it'll soon be good to go.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 25, March, 2013, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 24, March, 2013, 04:56:13 PM
That black spit looks a lot more up together than mine, a MK3 hard top spit.  bit of polish it'll soon be good to go.

Ha, its riddled with rust and the interior has completely rotted away. It will take a brave man to get that back on the road.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 03, May, 2013, 08:19:36 AM
This video made me laugh.  Guy setting fire to his MX5.  Love it how he trys to blow the fire out.  And yes, that is a can of fuel balanced on the side of the engine bay!!  ;D :D

Chevy 350 miata drift car fire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RBRCaVjYrM#ws)

After taking shortcuts to get the Spit engine fired up this was a warning for me though.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 03, May, 2013, 10:11:15 AM
Wow, he was lucky there. Why on earth earth he still trying to start it while it was on fire???

In fact he was lucky he didn't kill himself and burn the house down too.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 04, May, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Well, the old Spit has been rather neglected over April.  I have been waiting this long for a few parts from Canley's. :(  Back order, blah, blah.   :(

Anyway, got a few spare minutes, I thought I'd get the engine running and start trying to get the carbs set up properly.  I'd put the battery on charge last night and so this morning I tried to get the engine fired up.  Nope, not having it.   :(  Not so much as a cough.  Got sparks, got compression.  Surely some ether squirted in the carbs will get something?  Nope.

Time to do some checks.  Well no fuel getting through.  I had the pump off, poured a few litres of fuel in the tank and manually operated the pump lever.  Eventually there was fuel getting through.  Tick that off.  Still no signs of life.   Eh, I had this thing running a few weeks ago, WTF?  ???

I took the dizzy cap off.  Centre contact was hanging off on it's spring.  The top of the rotor arm was scratched so it much had been flying around inside.  I carefully pushed the contact back up inside the hole and refitted the cap.  Try again and bingo!  Engine running straight away!  I had a quick play with balancing the carbs and playing with the mixture.  Engine revving up beautifully now.   8) 

Then there was a shout out the backdoor of the house.  Been summoned by SWMBO.  Oh well, hopefully get back to the garage again soon.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 04, May, 2013, 12:41:41 PM
Quote from: robp on 04, May, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Well, the old Spit has been rather neglected over April.  I have been waiting this long for a few parts from Canley's. :(  Back order, blah, blah.   :(

Anyway, got a few spare minutes, I thought I'd get the engine running and start trying to get the carbs set up properly.  I'd put the battery on charge last night and so this morning I tried to get the engine fired up.  Nope, not having it.   :(  Not so much as a cough.  Got sparks, got compression.  Surely some ether squirted in the carbs will get something?  Nope.

Time to do some checks.  Well no fuel getting through.  I had the pump off, poured a few litres of fuel in the tank and manually operated the pump lever.  Eventually there was fuel getting through.  Tick that off.  Still no signs of life.   Eh, I had this thing running a few weeks ago, WTF?  ???

I took the dizzy cap off.  Centre contact was hanging off on it's spring.  The top of the rotor arm was scratched so it much had been flying around inside.  I carefully pushed the contact back up inside the hole and refitted the cap.  Try again and bingo!  Engine running straight away!  I had a quick play with balancing the carbs and playing with the mixture.  Engine revving up beautifully now.   8) 

Then there was a shout out the backdoor of the house.  Been summoned by SWMBO.  Oh well, hopefully get back to the garage again soon.

Rob - all good (and the old avatar's back)

Adrian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, May, 2013, 09:40:24 AM
Quote from: robp on 04, May, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
Well, the old Spit has been rather neglected over April.  I have been waiting this long for a few parts from Canley's. :(  Back order, blah, blah.   :(


Well, they must have been reading this post.  Box of goodies arrived this morning from Canley Classics. :D ;) :D

What's more, SWMBO is out tonight so it's an early night for the kids and then straight to the garage for me!!  8) 8)

Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Pilgrim Anna on 09, May, 2013, 06:01:20 PM
What an Idiot!!!! Lol  :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 15, May, 2013, 09:42:02 AM
New exhaust downpipe.  No longer available in mild so stainless it is.  Went on easily and now car a lot quieter.  8)

(http://s16.postimg.org/3n10gny6p/exhaust.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3n10gny6p/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 15, May, 2013, 09:56:57 AM
With the new section of exhaust I'd thought I'd spend a few minutes playing with the carbs.  I have just replaced the knackered clutch master cylinder and with the brakes working (no handbrake) it's nearly time to drive the car down the lane and see if I can free off the seized clutch.

Anyway, the engine ran fine for a minute and then conked out.  Bit of ether in the carbs got it to fire which pointed to a fuel problem.  Sure enough no fuel getting through.  There was fuel at the pump so I took that off to have a look.  Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  :( :( :( :(

(http://s21.postimg.org/arc2g1qcz/test.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/arc2g1qcz/)

The end of the fuel pump lever has sheared off.  It was a new pump too.   >:(   I have to work out why it's happened.  It was a direct replacement for my old pump.  I've used the same spacer off the block.  I have an electric pump to keep me going in the meantime but I need to work out why it's happened.

My main concern however is where the hell the end has gone.  The pump is driven off the camshaft.  I had a look in the hole in the side of the block were the pump fits but nothing there.  Anyone know about the internals of these engines?  Hopefully it's just fallen into the sump.  If so I'm not going to worry too much. 
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 15, May, 2013, 11:16:18 AM
Thats real bad for a new pump Rob, hope that little part has made it all the way to the bottom.

I would definitely complain to the suppliers and ask them to send you a more expensive model free of charge, not sure I'd trust them again. Possible metal fatigue on a batch maybe?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 15, May, 2013, 11:26:50 AM
If not wishing to take the sump off to retrieve the missing bit, maybe an idea would be to attach a fairly strong magnet on to the sump somewhere that would attract and hold any bits in one place so that if and when you ever did take the sump off, you should be able to find it easily.  ;)

8)

I've seen this done along time ago, and it's surprising what sticks to it. :o
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 15, May, 2013, 06:42:46 PM
 :o :o :o You can see more hair line cracks on that lever..
Hopefully the missing bit is in the sump...
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 15, May, 2013, 10:13:54 PM
I'm guessing that our Midget runs the same type of fuel pump because it is the 1500 so same as the Spitfire. Best check mine out when I do the engine strip/check :o

Hope it turns up in the sump Rob.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 16, May, 2013, 08:28:59 AM
You have to go in and get it, you'll worry about it everytime you start up otherwise.

It's a bu***r, but  probably cheaper in the long run. Plus you'll feel better

I saw a chap in Kingswood drop nut down the timing cover on lotus elan, took a chance and the car made it to old market, ouch!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 16, May, 2013, 08:58:13 AM
Another thing to try is one of those magnets on a telescopic bar, should be able to get in the fuel pump hole and search the sump that way a bit.  :)

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Hairy Santa on 16, May, 2013, 09:08:42 AM
I'm pretty certain it has dropped straight to the bottom of the sump, drain the oil, with a bit of luck it will come out with it, you might be lucky and already have a magnetic sump bung if not put one in, that should pick it up   
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 16, May, 2013, 05:34:39 PM
Thanks for all the advice, guys. 

I'll start by draining the oil off.  Not sure if I can drop the sump with the gearbox attached.  If I fail to free off the clutch then it's all got to come out anyway.


Quote from: 'The Gaffer' on 15, May, 2013, 11:16:18 AM
I would definitely complain to the suppliers....
I'm not sure it was a defective part, Phil.  On doing some research, I think it was me who cocked up.  :-[

With the late 1500 fuel pumps you need to make sure that the pump lever is positioned above the camshaft.  It's very easy to fit it under the cam when inserting into the block.  It'll still work for a while before the lever snaps off.   :(

Anyway, new pump ordered.  Lesson learnt.  ::)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 16, May, 2013, 10:12:26 PM
:o :o

Most definitely glad I know that before I strip the midget 1500 mate!!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 16, May, 2013, 11:53:15 PM
Quote from: robp on 16, May, 2013, 05:34:39 PM


Quote from: 'The Gaffer' on 15, May, 2013, 11:16:18 AM
I would definitely complain to the suppliers....
I'm not sure it was a defective part, Phil.  On doing some research, I think it was me who cocked up.  :-[

With the late 1500 fuel pumps you need to make sure that the pump lever is positioned above the camshaft.  It's very easy to fit it under the cam when inserting into the block.  It'll still work for a while before the lever snaps off.   :(

Anyway, new pump ordered.  Lesson learnt.  ::)

Ooops I take it back, hope you get it sorted.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, June, 2013, 03:31:21 PM
With various family and work commitments recently, I have not have much time for the Spit.  Managed to finally get back to the garage and get on with a few jobs.

Got the scuttle repainted and master cylinders back on.

Before:
(http://s13.postimg.org/97y16l0zn/scuttle1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/97y16l0zn/)

After:
(http://s14.postimg.org/ra7cswr4t/2013_06_27_14_41_44.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ra7cswr4t/)

As you'll know, I've had the engine running already.  However, I couldn't get it to run consistantly.  Sometimes it fired up straight away, other times it would take a few pulls.  Often, once it was warming up and tried to shut off the choke it would stall.  It clearly needed setting up properly.  I haven't got much experience with SU carbs so I thought it was about time I started learning about them.  Most people I spoke to said how easy they are to work on. 

I really want the car to run well.  OK, it's an old bus and it's never going to be as reliable as a modern motor.  Hoever, if the engine is going to be a pain then I (and SWMBO) will rapidly get cheesed off with the old motor.  Also, if you're going to the trouble of rebuilding a car then do it right.  So far all I have done is stripped the carbs down, cleaned everything up and replace the main jets.  It appears they need a little more t.l.c. than that.  Fortunately, there are very few parts to a SU and all the parts that wear are available in a service kit. 

My carbs are the HS4 model.  The 4 stands for the carb bore size.  It is the number of 1/8" of an inch over 1" size.  In this case, 4/8"=1/2" + 1" makes 1 1/2" size.  Likewise, a HS6 SU is 6x 1/8" + 1" = 1 3/4".  Understand?  Good!

My carbs have two features put on later models which I shall removing.  (1) Waxstat main tubes (which I have covered in an earlier post) and, (2) throttle disk valves which are a little spring loaded valve on the butterfly.  I'll be replacing this will a solid disk.  There is a little play on the throttle spindles so I will be replacing the spindle bushes too.  One of my 'rebuild' carbs recently showed another problem; a flooding float chamber.  The needle valve was sticking.  Luckily the service kit comes with a new valve and seat.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, June, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
Started on rear carb first.  Amazing; a few screws undone and most the carb is in pieces.  Piston and metering needle on top right.  I was really careful removing this so as not bend the needle.
(http://s22.postimg.org/xhn3r5ey5/2013_06_27_14_43_21.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xhn3r5ey5/)

Old waxstat jet tube with new fixed tube.  This is all coming off again but I'm also going to disassemble the jet adjusting assembly this time; it's filthy.  It means I'lll need to re-center the jet on reassembly.  The piston lifting pin on this carb is seized so I'll be sorting that out too.  Not strictly required but it will allow me to tune the mixture with the air filters in place.
(http://s10.postimg.org/9wz1c5r91/2013_06_27_14_44_34.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9wz1c5r91/)

Removed the piston damper assembly from the suction chamber body.  Blimey, I thought I'd cleaned this before!
(http://s23.postimg.org/jmdsba9w7/2013_06_27_14_45_02.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/jmdsba9w7/)

Once everything is in pieces I'll give it a good soak in carb cleaner overnight.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 27, June, 2013, 05:37:18 PM
Don't you love working on older stuff.. Bet a modern carb has more than 4 screws...
Should look nice when its all clean..
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 27, June, 2013, 08:19:03 PM
Looking good Rob.

We've been busy with the bodywork still, almost ready for the etch primer, and we got the paint delivered the other day :D

Can't wait for a long enough dry spell to be able to get on with it.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 27, June, 2013, 09:34:33 PM
Nice pics Rob, it must be nice to work on bits that you can see and that can make a difference to how the car runs. Not like today's computerised systems.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 28, June, 2013, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 27, June, 2013, 08:19:03 PM
We've been busy with the bodywork still, almost ready for the etch primer, and we got the paint delivered the other day :D

Can't wait for a long enough dry spell to be able to get on with it.

I will be watching your bodywork restoration on the MG with interest especially the paint.  I hope you're still going for Inca Yellow, JB.  Best colour!  :D

Shame my car is not ready for a respray yet.  We could do them both at the same time!  ;) ;) :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 02, July, 2013, 02:23:28 PM
OK, I've got the carbs back together and back in the car.  Here we go again.  Rubbing hands together.

Engine fired up!  All smiles  :) 

It was running slightly off which I would expect with carbs out of balance, etc.  I got my syncrometer on the inlets and started seeing how far out the air flow was on each side.

It was then that I noticed both float bowls had started leaking. :(  Now I knew the needles valves were adjusted properly.   I thought I would check the pressure from the my new shiny, second time lucky, fitted on the correct side of the cam, fuel pump.  Well the pressure gauge hit 7psi!!  WTF!!  >:( >:(   This should be 2-3psi for these carbs!

I have fitted a new inline fuel filter as part of the rebuild (there wasn't one before).  It looks like I'm going to have to fit an effing pressure regulator too.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 02, July, 2013, 02:49:00 PM
Chuffin''ell! :o

Looks like I'll need to keep an eye out when our beastie goes back together then! Mind you, it's the original pump that was in there when it was running OK before we got it (assuming he wasn't lying!) so it should be fine.....

P.S.  Thanks for doing all the troubleshooting before I get the troubles Rob ;) :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 06, July, 2013, 01:18:12 PM
Quote from: robp on 02, July, 2013, 02:23:28 PM
It looks like I'm going to have to fit a pressure regulator too.

OK, I found a Filter King regulator in a box in the garage.  It was on my old V8 Capri and was part of the NO2 system.  Anyway, fitted to the Spit and fired up the old girl.

:o :o :o :o
The regulator has a pressure gauge on it.  Well, once the pressure hit 12psi (yes, 12!) fuel started coming out everywhere!  I quickly shut off the engine.  The regulator in the (new) pump must be knackered.  Great. :(  I'll return it to the supplier. 

I'm almost at the point of fitting my electric pump.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, July, 2013, 10:43:44 AM
I've fitted the electric pump via a relay, etc.  Much better and carbs now seeing about 3psi.  Mechanical thingy on it's way back to suppliers.

OK. Time for a drive.  It was a bit of a challenge getting the Spit out of the garage with a seized clutch.  Thankfully the Spitfire has a turning circle better than a London cab!  Anyway, I was expecting to have to get a bit brutal to free of the clutch.  However, it went easily and I was able to go for a drive!!  ;) ;D ;D

First drive of Spitfire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zsuG3npAss#) 

Sorry to disappoint you Ed.  It appears I'm not quite as tall as Ed China!!  I can actually look through the windscreen and not over it!

Engine ran well; no leaks, overheating, etc.  I need to check mixture is correct.  The fan belt start squealing so a quick check required there.  There was something banging underneath at the back which is probably the exhaust as it's quite tight with the chassis.  The brakes working well but I have no handbrake.

It's a great moment to finally get the Spitfire moving under it's own power for the first time in 7 years.  8) 8) 8) Of course, still loads to do.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 08, July, 2013, 11:17:12 AM
Nice one Rob :) Sounds sweet.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 08, July, 2013, 11:35:34 AM
Well done Rob - she's looking good.

I might have to get you some cushions to sit on so you can get the wind in your hair :P :P ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Hairy Santa on 08, July, 2013, 11:43:57 AM
nice one, proper job  :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 08, July, 2013, 03:05:24 PM
Nice one Rob! :D

We're a way off that stage yet, but the bodywork is starting to look better. Got the doors, bonnet, boot all etch-primed, going to hang the doors probably tonight so I can get the final bits of alignment and filler/sanding done.

Nice to see your Spit' on the move though ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, July, 2013, 05:10:09 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 08, July, 2013, 03:05:24 PM
... going to hang the doors probably tonight so I can get the final bits of alignment done.

You should see the panel gaps on my driver's door; you can see them in the video.   ???
I'm not too concerned at the moment though as that door needs to be either replaced or re-skinned.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 08, July, 2013, 09:31:15 PM
I wouldn't worry too much mate, in the 'old' days they reckoned at the factory "if it shuts, it fits" :D :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 19, July, 2013, 10:51:17 AM
I had one of those night in the garage last night.

I was determined to get the engine running sweetly.  OK, it starts, runs, doesn't over heat, etc. which is good.  However, it's not there yet.  It coughs and splutters when I try to rev it up.  (It will rev).  Carbs are balanced.  Mixture?  Well, the plugs are a little sooty (rich) but if I lift the carb piston with a screwdriver the revs die immediately (weak).  I probably need to get hold of a Colourtune and see what  that shows.

I've done the usually checks.  Good compression on all cylinders.  Got sparks (not the fattest admittedly).  Timing?  Well, as you know, I did a top end rebuild and left the bottom end alone.  During this time I left the dizzy on the block so (in theory) the timing is OK.  I have Optronic ignition so there are no points.  However, normally 90% of poor running is electrical.

Anyway, left the garage with my head bowed last night.  :'(
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 21, July, 2013, 08:30:19 PM
Sometimes when it start's going that way & it's getting late, Then it's time to call it a night & look at it again the next day with fresh eye's. Even though at the time you really don't want to leave it until it's done but you just end up not getting much done in the end.  :-[

Hope you get it sorted soon mate.  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 21, July, 2013, 10:57:14 PM
Look on the bright side mate, I haven't even started to clean and check over the engine yet! You're way ahead of me chap :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 21, July, 2013, 11:29:20 PM
Have you checked for a good earth to the engine Rob?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 22, July, 2013, 08:36:24 AM
If you lift  the dashpot piston you are richening the mixture. I would say you are already running rich which is why the revs die.
A good starting point is to screw the mixture nut up till the jet is level, then screw it down 12 nut flats. This should run well enough to balance the carbs. Then adjust the mixtures.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 22, July, 2013, 10:32:00 AM
Thanks for all the advice guys.

Quote from: benchmark51 on 22, July, 2013, 08:36:24 AM
If you lift  the dashpot piston you are richening the mixture. I would say you are already running rich which is why the revs die.
You could well be right.  I've just ordered a Colortune so we'll soon see what the mixture is like.  I've heard of some people using two Colortunes on an engine with twin carbs.  Well, one step at a time for me!

Quote from: YellaBelly on 21, July, 2013, 10:57:14 PM
You're way ahead of me chap :)
Yes, I'm ahead on the oily bits.  It's the other way around on the bodywork though!  If I can't sort my engine out soon I'm going to be asking to borrow bits off you engine to swap over and work it out by a process of elimination!!  :P :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 23, July, 2013, 11:00:07 AM

You're getting there Rob - minor SU carb challenge - nothing you cant handle
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 03, August, 2013, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: MarlboroCar on 23, July, 2013, 11:00:07 AM

You're getting there Rob - minor SU carb challenge - nothing you cant handle

Thanks, Adrian.  Yes, I certainly need to get back in the garage and give it another try.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 03, August, 2013, 05:56:30 PM
OK, finally manage to get back in the garage for a short time today.  Beginning to forget what the old Spit looks like!

I met a couple of Triumph enthusiasts at the Frenchey Museum Car Show the other day.  They suggested I could have some muck in the new jets as one of them had a similar issue with his Herald.  They also suggested I looked at the ignition timing.  Readers of this thread will know that I haven't removed the dizzy from the block yet.  Anyway, I firstly marked the current position of the distributor.  Then I loosened off the clamp and tried to turn it.  Nope, stuck solid!  I ended up taking the whole thing off the engine.  It still took half an hour on the bench to free it off.  All done now and back on the engine.

(http://s24.postimg.org/xkjivf6s1/dizzy.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xkjivf6s1/)

I have a strobe light, so together with my new Colortune, I'll have that old lump running like a sewing machine in no time.  All I need now is some time!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 03, August, 2013, 07:45:52 PM
Stick at it Rob, these are the joys mate ;) :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: dikkie on 16, August, 2013, 11:56:57 AM
I just ordered myself a colortune - Halfords had them for £25 which seems to be the cheapest around (for once!). You're welcome to borrow it if you want to try the twin carb tuning technique...
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, October, 2013, 07:21:39 PM
Shock, horror!  After over two months, I made it back to the garage and got my hands on the Spit again!  (I've been working on the house for weeks so I haven't had any time for the car).

Right, time to sort out this effing fuel issue.  I fired up the electric pump but it couldn't pull any fuel through.  Fuel tank half full.  OK, disconnect pump and see if I can suck some through.  Arrh!  Mouth full of petrol!  Put mechanical pump on; no feed.  Elec pump; no feed.  Do I really want to drink anymore fuel?  :P  I'm now working my way back down the car with the fuel line.  No fuel in line from tank.  My mouthful must have been what was left in the line.  I wonder if it's something to do with the pick up inside the tank? 

Now it is a couple of hours since I left the garage and I still getting petrol burps. :-[ ::)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 27, October, 2013, 08:33:24 PM
Well I suppose it's cheaper than drinking whisky? If drinking fuel does it for you mate?  :D  Good job you don't like a fag with your drink?  :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 28, October, 2013, 08:02:03 AM
Rob, I have just put my fuel pump back on as we are nearly at the 'first start' stage! I was getting no fuel at all on the starter motor (plugs out) so I took the pump off and checked it manually with a little fuel in a jar and still nothing. Took the cover off and checked the filter gauze but it seemed fine. So I put it back together and just nipped the cover down a little tighter than it was. Tried again manually and it was fine! Put the pump back on the car and tried on the starter and got a lovely stream of fuel :) I reckon that the cover might not have been nipped down enough and had a little leak of air so not getting the suction?

Anyhow, I know you have tried your electric one and still the same but if you can suck fuel from the tank I would be surprised if the pump can't. Try blowing down the line back to the tank and also try the pumps off the car, might be worth a go?

HTH.

JB
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 03, December, 2013, 09:13:06 PM
I have decided to work my way down the fuel system starting right back at the tank.  First job is to get the tank out and check it's innards.  In the Spit, it sits between the seats and the boot.

First job was to remove the inner panel in the boot.
(http://s21.postimg.org/3si8h3tir/20131203_195735.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3si8h3tir/)

Next, I disconnected the filler hose and five bolts and it's out.  That was easy!  Mmm, hole on the right must be what is left of the breather.
(http://s15.postimg.org/aap161rjr/20131203_201122.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/aap161rjr/)

Once the tank was out the car I flushed it out with some fresh fuel.  Bit of crap came out but not too bad.  Next, I cleaned out the pipe that draws fuel from the bottom of the tank.
(http://s22.postimg.org/hjpxaudkt/20131203_201447.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hjpxaudkt/)

After cleaning everything up and re-fitting the lift pipe, I connected the fuel pump directly to it with a short piece of hose.  Job done.  Works a treat!
(http://s29.postimg.org/lsq9wo41v/20131203_203226.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lsq9wo41v/)

Finally, I refitted the tank to the car.
Next step: Replace the fuel line from the tank to the engine compartment.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 04, December, 2013, 08:28:15 AM
Good progress Rob - keep up the good work  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 08, December, 2013, 09:51:36 AM
I've got one of those tanks in my Locost Rob ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 08, December, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
I was wondering if I work hard enough and really pull out all the stops I could getting my Spitfire looking like this example on EBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Spitfire-1500-1976-/261349663933?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cd9a764bd


:P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 08, December, 2013, 04:46:59 PM
Quote from: robp on 08, December, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
I was wondering if I work hard enough and really pull out all the stops I could getting my Spitfire looking like this example on EBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Spitfire-1500-1976-/261349663933?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cd9a764bd


:P

WTF :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 08, December, 2013, 05:14:37 PM
I like all types of creations but I'm not sure about this one.  ???
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 08, December, 2013, 09:07:19 PM
I'm impressed someone would go to such effort to butcher a decent shape into something so cocking awful!  The fake air intake on the top of the engine really did it for me.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 09, December, 2013, 06:50:45 AM
Quote from: robp on 08, December, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
I was wondering if I work hard enough and really pull out all the stops I could getting my Spitfire looking like this example on EBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Spitfire-1500-1976-/261349663933?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cd9a764bd


:P

Shambles or even Omnishambles
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 09, December, 2013, 09:33:13 AM

(http://s28.postimg.org/mfptrr655/Spitfire.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mfptrr655/)

Not sure what to say really.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 17, December, 2013, 09:46:50 AM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 08, July, 2013, 09:31:15 PM
I wouldn't worry too much mate, in the 'old' days they reckoned at the factory "if it shuts, it fits" :D :D

I've just seen this photo on another forum.  The panel gaps look awful so perhaps I don't need to worry too much!!  :P

(http://s11.postimg.org/e9ljpgc0f/spit_delivery_7072.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e9ljpgc0f/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 02, January, 2014, 09:47:22 AM
Rob,

Being a little long in the tooth - I remember that cars from the 60-80's had lost the bespoke perfection of their predecessors and body panel fits were pretty approximate.  On several occasions I bought near new cars with dodgy fits and had to straighten them out - it was normal.  It was in the time where Fords were called Dagenham dustbins and they fitted doors with an oversize wooden mallet - yes the did, they really did!  From the mid 80's Quality became a lead issue and fits mattered again.  High pressure presses became the norm and they "coined" panels (as in hit them really hard) to fix their shape and remove the variability.  We have now got used to the precision and expect it but it wasnt like that for a long time.

It also reminds me of that thing about "Cars were made better then". No they weren't - it is only the good ones that have survived.  The Worst car I ever encountered was a Rover SDI 3.5 V8.  I used to Valet cars for dealers when the Rover SDI was delcared Car of the Year.  I was asked to valet one at 6 months old and cut my hand badly when cleaning under the drivers door - the bottom had rotted-out.  When I opened the tail-gate the whole of the hinge mounts and the rear of the roof flexed.  It was a rot-box at 6 months and none of the panels fitted at all well.  The dash panel had only half of its fixings, the speedometer read high and it had half a dozen intermittent faults.  I bandaged my hand and the dealer wrote it off at 6 months old.  My guess is that the lovely engine lives on in a much better-built kit car now.  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 03, January, 2014, 03:05:29 PM
Like I said before Rob, a quote from an old MG fitter: "if it shuts, it fits" :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 31, May, 2014, 06:08:26 PM
Right.  We are moving again.  8)

I moved house a few months ago and since then the Spitfire has been sat on the drive under a cover.  The garage has been so full of junk left over from the move there was no room for the car.  There has been 101 jobs to do on the new house and the Spit has been ignored. 

Well, there is still plenty to do on the house, but I have managed to get around to clearing the garage.  A few trips to the dump and finally there was enough room to get the car in the garage.

(http://s27.postimg.org/56qtlh2ov/2014_05_31_17_28_52.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/56qtlh2ov/)

The car seemed to have suffered no ill effects from it's time under the cover.  I pinched it's battery for the Westfield a few weeks ago which will now need to be replaced.

I was going to get on with re-skinning the doors and replacing the front wings.  However, since JB is busy with the SUs on the MG, I think I'll join the fold and get my engine running smoothly first.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 31, May, 2014, 06:11:29 PM
Ho, ho.  Just got this message when adding my post!  ;D

Quote from: robp on 31, May, 2014, 06:08:26 PM
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.


Yep.  Need to get things moving again!  ;D :D :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 31, May, 2014, 08:48:51 PM
Yeah,

It is disappointing when mere machines start to nag - I mean we're only blokes doing our best - we don't multi-task - we just do one thing at a time and sometimes there are just too many things happening one after the other.  120 days is not a "delay" it is a normal interruption in a bloke's intended schedule. 

The good news is you are back in your comfort zone now Rob! 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 31, May, 2014, 10:06:47 PM
Nice one Rob. Glad your back on it mate.  8)  I think you have sent my house warming invite to the wrong address mate.  ;D

Ian speak for yourself I'm good at multi-tasking, what ever I'm doing I still can think about half naked ladies while doing it.  :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 31, May, 2014, 10:41:24 PM
Quote from: Moleman on 31, May, 2014, 10:06:47 PM
Nice one Rob. Glad your back on it mate.  8)  I think you have sent my house warming invite to the wrong address mate.  ;D

Ian speak for yourself I'm good at multi-tasking, what ever I'm doing I still can think about half naked ladies while doing it.  :P
Especially when your arm is stuck in a piece of furniture your putting together.  ;)

Wish my garage was that tidy!

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Pilgrim Anna on 02, June, 2014, 06:48:23 PM
Well done Rob. What a tidy garage ;). Poor Bri doesn't get much time to tidy his what with work, looking after Joao, dogs etc.... :(
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 03, June, 2014, 08:13:03 AM
Nice one Rob! Great to see it's moving again ;)

But I now feel really depressed, moved from a HUGE duble garage to no garage and miss it like mad, especially with this long hot summer we aren't getting! All my jobs on the Midget need to be squeezed in between rain :(

Still fighting with the rich running too!!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 03, June, 2014, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: Bulldog Bri on 31, May, 2014, 10:41:24 PM

Wish my garage was that tidy!

8)

Thanks Bri.  To be fair, that is the good view.  If I had taken the photo looking the other way it would be a different story!  ::)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 03, June, 2014, 08:46:31 PM
My other half always comments on how I keep my garage spotless but not the house.  ::) :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 05, June, 2014, 03:11:07 PM
One thing good about Spitfires is how the whole front of the car lifts up to get access to the engine.  This gives lots of room for working on things and you can (just about) sit of the front tyre whilst grafting.  However, good as this is, I'm starting to get bored with banging my head on the corner of the bonnet everytime I go and get another spanner.  Enough is enough.  Off it comes!

(http://s22.postimg.org/8lkho4z25/2014_06_05_14_53_28.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8lkho4z25/)

Now there is loads of room  8)

Couple of things to note in the photo:
1. Rag around the brake master cylinder.  It has been leaking brake fluid and has managed to ruin the paintwork on the scuttle.  Eh,ho.  We'll get on to that later.
2. There is no battery.  Hope get this sorted ASAP so I can start playing engines again.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 05, June, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 03, June, 2014, 08:13:03 AM

.... moved from a HUGE double garage to no garage ....


Yes, must be difficult.  Any room at the new place to build a garage in the future?  A garage was on the list of must haves when I moved.  Strangely, it wasn't on SWMBO's list though. ::)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 05, June, 2014, 09:56:19 PM
Quote from: robp on 05, June, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 03, June, 2014, 08:13:03 AM

.... moved from a HUGE double garage to no garage ....


Yes, must be difficult.  Any room at the new place to build a garage in the future?  A garage was on the list of must haves when I moved.  Strangely, it wasn't on SWMBO's list though. ::)

If it wasn't rented Rob I would, loads of room! Maybe I can talk the landlords into letting me use an outbuilding they have sitting empty ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 05, June, 2014, 11:57:27 PM
Where I am now was the first place I've ever bought that never had a garage. Best excuse to build the biggest I could get away with then :P

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 25, June, 2014, 11:53:18 AM
One thing I discovered after the cars lay up over the move, was the brake master cylinder had leaked it contents all over the scuttle area.  The brake fluid had done a good job of stripping the paintwork in that area!

I took everything off and cleaned it up and resprayed the area.  I couldn't be bothered to muck about replacing seals so just got a new master cylinder.

All back together now so I just have to bleed the brakes.

(http://s23.postimg.org/rye52p0c7/2014_06_25_11_45_25.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rye52p0c7/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 25, June, 2014, 12:01:16 PM
I've got a new battery now so I thought I'd have a quick try to fired up the engine.  Started OK with plenty of choke and revved up to nearly 2000rpm.  It seemed to be running fairly smoothly.  As I backed off the choke to bring the revs down it started running unevenly.  One of the exhaust bobbins had broken and the misfiring engine made one of the back pipes start banging away properly!  I shut if off before I upset too many neighbours!

It looks like the carbs are out of balance.  I'll get my syncrometer on them although I'll probably wait until the brakes are ready.  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 25, June, 2014, 12:06:57 PM
Quote from: robp on 25, June, 2014, 11:53:18 AM
One thing I discovered after the cars lay up over the move, was the brake master cylinder had leaked it contents all over the scuttle area.  The brake fluid had done a good job of stripping the paintwork in that area!

I took everything off and cleaned it up and resprayed the area.  I couldn't be bothered to muck about replacing seals so just got a new master cylinder.

All back together now so I just have to bleed the brakes.

(http://s23.postimg.org/rye52p0c7/2014_06_25_11_45_25.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rye52p0c7/)

Rob - you know the rules.  Two steps forward one step back :)

Adrian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 25, June, 2014, 12:08:41 PM
The Spit's bonnet needs a bit of work.  It's been patched up in the past with glass fibre.  The inner wheel arches have been replaced but the out sections are in a poor state.  Also, the front wing sections need replacing too.

(http://s30.postimg.org/5u5e96bz1/2014_06_25_11_42_34.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5u5e96bz1/)

I want to get started although I'm determined to get the engine running right first!  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 25, June, 2014, 09:28:43 PM
Rob,

The picture doesn't look too bad.  [You are absolutey right about priorities - you want to know it runs alright before it gains a pretty skin!].

It looks easy enough to cut-out and patch the steel but as the inner wings are removable, have you thought of using them as a cast to make fibreglass replacements that would be more durable OR mat fibre-glassing over the patched inner wing.  I guess some purists would not like the thought but it cant be seen and a cast would be beter than the original and lighter.

Regards
Ian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 25, June, 2014, 10:35:20 PM
Keep up the good work Rob, you will get there in the end :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 26, June, 2014, 05:26:09 PM
My bonnet is the same, the more I look around my spit the more work I find needs doing, I've a small split at the windscreen side of the bonnet and needs welding!  I will get round to prying it out but the porsche is taking priority at the moment.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, October, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
I've managed to make some progress on the Spitfire again.

The bodywork on the car is pretty good.  The only areas that need attention are the bonnet and the doors.  I have started on the bonnet.  Fortunately the main section is OK.  It is the wing sections and the wheel arches that are poor.

I got the bonnet in the garage.  First job was the drill out the spot welds to separate the wings from the bonnet.  I don't know who originally welded it up back in the 70's in Coventry but they must have been paid per weld.  There was loads of them!  And all at a different pitch!

Some sections needed a grinder.  This easily cut through all the metal, filler and glass fibre that the car had acquired over the years!!  :D   Fine but left the garage filled with dust!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, October, 2014, 09:12:28 PM
This shows the state of the wing and outer wheel arch.
(http://s9.postimg.org/hmyul5a9n/2014_09_13_11_22_58.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hmyul5a9n/)

Headlight surround will need attention.
(http://s28.postimg.org/y7ije8vih/2014_09_13_11_22_33.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/y7ije8vih/)

Old wing off.
(http://s27.postimg.org/6gworg8en/2014_10_18_15_57_16.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6gworg8en/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, October, 2014, 09:15:15 PM
Finally got my new panels through from Moss (who recently had a discount).  Seem to go on OK.  Bit more alignment, etc. before fixing in place.

(http://s11.postimg.org/l8cs2vazj/2014_10_18_16_02_05.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/l8cs2vazj/)

These dark evenings are great.  I can't work on the garden anymore and have been forced to go to the garage!  :P ;D 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 20, October, 2014, 10:09:39 PM
You don't want to go rushing these jobs Rob  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 21, October, 2014, 11:44:40 AM
Nice to see you back on the tools Rob :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 21, October, 2014, 08:59:47 PM
Just found this old photo. 

(http://s30.postimg.org/umizjpet9/Spit.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/umizjpet9/)

This is when the car had some bodywork replaced before (back in the late 90s I believe).  Rear wings and valence, sills and rear wheel arches.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 21, October, 2014, 11:38:05 PM
Isn't it great to look back in time of a car's history 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 22, October, 2014, 03:56:03 PM
Keep up the hard work Rob.. Rather you than me chasing that british rust around. I would love to undertake a slight resto job but my garage is a little to small, plus the Mk lives in it  ;D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 24, October, 2014, 02:54:27 PM
I feel your pain Rob! :(

Well, after all the blood, sweat and tears we've put into the Midget, we are selling her. We thought about it and have decided that she will not get used enough to warrant the extra costs involved, so she is going up for sale.

If you know of anyone who may be interested let me know ;)

Good luck on your Spitfire.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 24, October, 2014, 04:01:09 PM
Shame :( Lets see some pics of the car to see how far you got with it ::)

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 24, October, 2014, 08:19:00 PM
I've got a little more trim to refit and a couple of little bits to sort then I'll take some piccies for the sale. Might get it done this weekend mate ;)

She's not too far from an MOT but I just haven't got the time now so I'll just have to take a hit on the sale.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 01, November, 2014, 11:15:57 AM
I'm just about ready to start welding the panels together that form the bonnet assembly.  The mating faces are currently bare metal.  Ideal for welding but it won't take long before moisture gets in there and the rust returns.

Can anyone advice me what I can do?  Is there a weld through primer that offers rust protection?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 01, November, 2014, 11:51:50 AM
I think I would just complete the welding then give the seams a good etch prime and follow with seam sealer.
Never had a problem with that method.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: damouk on 01, November, 2014, 04:16:24 PM
I have some 99. bla bla % zinc content primer which claims to be weld through. I have no idea if its true as I have never tried.. and on top of that my welding usually looks like a flock of sparrows have flown past.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 12, November, 2014, 10:11:31 AM
Quote from: damouk on 01, November, 2014, 04:16:24 PM
I have some 99. bla bla % zinc content primer which claims to be weld through.

Yep.  I got some and tried it on a test piece.  It is indeed weld through.  I may try it out on the bonnet.

Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 12, November, 2014, 10:14:41 AM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 01, November, 2014, 11:51:50 AM
I think I would just complete the welding then give the seams a good etch prime and follow with seam sealer.
Never had a problem with that method.
Thanks for the advice.  I've got some etch primer and I'll get hold of some seam sealer.

I'm just about ready to start welding everything up.  We're getting there!  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 12, November, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
Pictures Rob, pictures! :D ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 24, November, 2014, 09:53:31 AM
This was the state around the NS headlight.
(http://s27.postimg.org/am7d3z5in/2014_10_29_15_07_29.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/am7d3z5in/)
(http://s28.postimg.org/b81uga5rd/2014_10_29_15_07_37.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/b81uga5rd/)

Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 24, November, 2014, 09:54:35 AM
Quote from: bluehornetrider on 26, June, 2014, 05:26:09 PM
The more I look around my spit the more work I find needs doing.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 24, November, 2014, 09:59:04 AM
Here is a photo of the surgeon's tools.
(http://s27.postimg.org/6z9zgvqun/2014_11_21_19_59_51.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6z9zgvqun/)

This is some of the crap I've cut off the old bonnet. 
(http://s30.postimg.org/wt7dn6jfh/2014_11_21_19_59_47.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wt7dn6jfh/)

....that and about an inch of dust all over the garage!  ;D ::)


Mmm, must remember to remove the bonnet catches before I sling it out. :-[
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 24, November, 2014, 10:17:10 AM
The bonnet internal framework ready for spraying.
(http://s18.postimg.org/e1f6dhgjp/2014_11_17_20_46_56.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e1f6dhgjp/)

New outer wheelarch on.  Patterned panel went on easily.
(http://s4.postimg.org/5fj1bmtqx/2014_11_21_19_59_25.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5fj1bmtqx/)

Coming back together.
(http://s17.postimg.org/jpxp7p0p7/2014_11_21_19_58_38.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/jpxp7p0p7/)

Mmm, more rust!
(http://s3.postimg.org/vw1126n9b/2014_11_21_19_58_59.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vw1126n9b/)

Nearly there.  I haven't had to replace the inner wheel arches (although I suspect they're not original).
(http://s7.postimg.org/n6i4e5exj/2014_11_23_10_56_08.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/n6i4e5exj/)


This has been my first go at bodywork restoration and I've really enjoyed it.  Just as well as I'm sure there is plenty more work waiting for me on the rest of the car! :P  It's currently parked outside under a cover.  Plan is to get it back in the garage as soon as possible before the winter sets in properly.  The doors and one of the A pillars next.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 24, November, 2014, 03:34:08 PM
Good progress Rob - keep it up  :D

Cheers Adrian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 24, November, 2014, 05:20:33 PM
Nice work Rob - good to see it going back together :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 24, November, 2014, 07:41:50 PM
Nice work Rob.

Most modern cars now have wheel-arch liners to prevent stone chips and the inevitable rust.  It looks like you could bond a rubber liner on those.  You can find 2 and 3mm Neoprene and EPDM black rubber on fleebay - just bond it on with impact adhesive.  It doesnt show when it is on and the crud doesnt stick to it.

Regards
Ian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, November, 2014, 02:13:21 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 12, November, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
Pictures Rob, pictures! :D ;)

How about your Midget, JB?  I'll be great to see how that looks now.  Managed to get it through a MOT yet?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, November, 2014, 02:24:11 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 24, November, 2014, 07:41:50 PM
Most modern cars now have wheel-arch liners to prevent stone chips and the inevitable rust.  It looks like you could bond a rubber liner on those.  You can find 2 and 3mm Neoprene and EPDM black rubber on fleebay - just bond it on with impact adhesive.  It doesnt show when it is on and the crud doesnt stick to it.

Mmm, I hadn't considered that option, Ian.  I'll have a look into it.  I was just going to spray up with Waxoyl wheelarch stuff.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, November, 2014, 02:27:11 PM
Back in the garage again....

(http://s3.postimg.org/4m9j66avj/Spit1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4m9j66avj/)
(http://s23.postimg.org/909458zjr/Spit2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/909458zjr/)

...before the rest rusts away!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 27, November, 2014, 10:25:03 PM
I had to look closely at pic 2 - I thought you had copped a parking ticket!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 27, November, 2014, 10:58:26 PM
Probably a home made one. You put them on you screen to fool the parking tarts into thinking they have already got you, so they leave you alone. :D :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 27, November, 2014, 10:58:57 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 28, November, 2014, 09:43:12 PM
Quote from: robp on 27, November, 2014, 02:13:21 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 12, November, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
Pictures Rob, pictures! :D ;)

How about your Midget, JB?  I'll be great to see how that looks now.  Managed to get it through a MOT yet?

Not yet Rob. We've moved again! Looong story, but we are now nearer the sea, so Jan is happy, and I have more workshop space than I can shake a stick at! So I'm happy too :D

I was going to sell the Midget as is, but we've decided to get her fully sorted, MOT'd then sell her in the spring so we will get a much better price.

Still got rich-running issues, so I think I'm going to have to get new main jets and needles. I cannot get it to lean out even with the jets screwed fully in.

Spit's looking good BTW ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, May, 2015, 02:42:04 PM
Managed to have a look at the Spit again.

Brakes bled (at last!) after replacing the MS and half the piping and all work well.  8)

I'm planning on having a go at getting it running again.  This jar is what was in the float bowls.  No, I haven't been trying to run the engine on Marmite!  Does petrol go like this if left for a few months?

(http://s22.postimg.org/v5iar6ywd/Spit_fuel.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/v5iar6ywd/)

Whole fuel system needs a full flush through.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 20, May, 2015, 09:43:36 PM
Rob,

I think that might be the effect of Bio ethanol (alcohol) content in modern fuel.  Alcohol is highly miscible with water and water is conductive so that can cause bi-metallic corrosion.  Aluminium in-circuit is highly prone to attack and copper tends to leach out of the brass.  Over a long time the iron in the fuel circuit could leach out too.  Another possiblity is that it has been previously fuelled from a rusty jerry can - if so you should expect that the fuel filter will look even worse.  It might be worth inspecting the inside of the fuel tank for rust - if the plating has gone they rust fairly readily.  I have a viewerscope if you need one.

Regards
Ian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 20, May, 2015, 10:18:12 PM
I remember from my spitfire days that fuel tanks rotted quite badly. Also old petrol takes on the smell of white spirit. Any doubt about the fuel tank, replace it. I've soldered them up only to have them go in another place. Moss of Europe list them at £230, part no RKC3395 (1500cc). Or make one up?

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/spitfire/fuel-system-induction-controls/tanks-pumps-pipes/fuel-tank-pipes-pump.html
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: bluehornetrider on 13, July, 2015, 03:20:02 PM
If fuel is left long enough it will turn into jelly, or mouldy. Any fuel should be filter at least every 7 years. Modern fuel has too much ethanol for 40 year old fuel lines as it perrishes the rubber leaving black lumps in the fuel.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 17, July, 2015, 02:22:53 PM
If you haven't already got one Rob, fit an in-line fuel filter. I kept getting flooding from the bowls in the Midget because the needles stick at the slightest bit of muck in there. Fitted the filter and she's fine now. It would be a shame to go through all the cleaning etc. only to have it all clog up from muck in the tank/lines.

JB
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 11, January, 2016, 08:45:46 PM
Quote from: YellaBelly on 17, July, 2015, 02:22:53 PM
If you haven't already got one Rob, fit an in-line fuel filter. I kept getting flooding from the bowls in the Midget because the needles stick at the slightest bit of muck in there. Fitted the filter and she's fine now. It would be a shame to go through all the cleaning etc. only to have it all clog up from muck in the tank/lines.

JB

Yes, good advice, JB.  I do have a in-line filter before the carbs.  Also, since I fitted an electric fuel pump in the boot, I also have a Filterking there as a pressure regulator and that has a filter too.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 11, January, 2016, 08:46:55 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 20, May, 2015, 10:18:12 PM
I remember from my spitfire days that fuel tanks rotted quite badly. Also old petrol takes on the smell of white spirit. Any doubt about the fuel tank, replace it. I've soldered them up only to have them go in another place. Moss of Europe list them at £230, part no RKC3395 (1500cc). Or make one up?

Yep, I may treat myself to a new tank.  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 11, January, 2016, 08:59:23 PM
So many things going on at the moment, the Spitfire has dropped down my list of priorities.  However, over the Christmas hols I managed to have a look at the old girl.

The engine just wouldn't start.  Not even a cough.  Squirt of Easystart, nope.  Therefore, it was likely to be ignition and sure enough the Lumenition wasn't getting any power.  Sorted that.

Still wouldn't have it though.  I had a look in the float chambers and one was dry.
Quote from: YellaBelly on 17, July, 2015, 02:22:53 PM
... the needles stick at the slightest bit of muck in there. ...
Yes, stuck needle valve.  The other side was full though, but with the brownest fuel I've seen.  I emptyed the float bowl and then disconnected the fuel tank and purged the whole system with fresh fuel from a 5litre can in the boot.  Bingo, fired up instantly!  ;D

Of course, I had to go for a quick drive.  No doors, interior, roof or boot-lid and with the whole front bodywork missing!  ;) ::)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 11, January, 2016, 09:09:00 PM
OK, how to sort out the rusty fuel tank.....

1.  Buy a new one.  Ain't cheap at about £230+

2.  Use this stuff.  Seems popular with many classic car folk.
http://www.frost.co.uk/por15-small-car-tank-repair-kit.html

3.  Use white wine vinegar.  Get some 40% stuff and let it sit in there for a while.  Cheapest option!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 11, January, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
Rob,

Good luck with this.  If it is rusty then the plating has failed and you have bare steel.  Weak acid will remove light rust but heavy rust in there would need to be brushed off.  I have a viewer-scope if you want to have a good look inside.  Bio-Ethanol in fuel is corrosive because it takes up water and any air with water equals more rust.  I can see why the repair kit would work because it would lacquer-coat the surface.

Hint: If you tap rusty metal you get a duller sound than the bell like "tink" response you get with good steel.  So if you get a dull response at the bottom of the tank it would be heavily rusted.  Steel tends to de-laminate along its rolling grain and while the rust might be thick, the good metal might be thin. As you are going to fill this with liquid explosive it is best to be sure about it.

My only worry would be if you repair it that it "might" still fail after you get the car reassembled and then you would regret not buying a new one with new protective plating on the inside.  For insurance you could then use the repair kit to lacquer the new one and be doubly sure.  All I can say from experience is that I have never regretted over-doing it but re-doing it costs more in time and money.  Hope that helps.
Ian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 11, January, 2016, 10:09:23 PM
Only just discovered this topic, I didn't know you had a Spitfire Rob, I love those things!!!! Always wanted one in my youth but never managed to get one. Looked online at prices recently in fact, they seem to vary widely.

Maybe one day!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 11, January, 2016, 10:32:52 PM
Might have to have a look at this as well. The tank of the Locost has had so many tiny pinprick holes, I've patched them up with fuel tank putty but a new one seems to appear not long after.  ::)

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 11, January, 2016, 10:47:47 PM
The best remedy would be a new one, but as you say pricey. A second hand one could be even worse than the one you have, although you may be lucky. Heres one on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321971375818?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Or make one. Maybe adapt one from a seven. Thats the route I would use personally

Just spotted this Adapt it?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-SEICENTO-FUEL-TANK-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/141866875188?hash=item2107ecb934:g:xKQAAOSwxN5WYDPm
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, January, 2016, 09:14:33 PM
Quote from: robp on 11, January, 2016, 09:09:00 PM
OK, how to sort out the rusty fuel tank.....

1.  Buy a new one.  Ain't cheap at about £230+

2.  Use this stuff.  Seems popular with many classic car folk.
http://www.frost.co.uk/por15-small-car-tank-repair-kit.html

3.  Use white wine vinegar.  Get some and let it sit in there for a while.  Cheapest option!

OK.  I went down the cheapskate route of the acid vinegar.  ::)

I bought 5 litres of 40% strength and poured it in the tank.  I also put a small amount in a plastic tray with a couple of bits of rusty metal as a tester.  I had a look the next day and the there was no change. 

I forgot all about it but when I was in the garage today I saw the tester and the rust had mostly gone.  I had a look in the tank and was delighted to see clean metal in there.  :D :D  There was a couple of small areas that just needed a little help so I chucked in a few screws and give the whole thing a good shake.  I drained the whole thing and, blimey, the brown muck that came out!  :o :o

Anyway, looks great now!

(http://s22.postimg.org/z0gwtt1tp/2016_01_20_20_22_22.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/z0gwtt1tp/)

(http://s29.postimg.org/40nzt3gs3/2016_01_20_20_22_50.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/40nzt3gs3/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, January, 2016, 09:15:52 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 11, January, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
For insurance you could then use the repair kit to lacquer the new one and be doubly sure.

Yes.  Good advice, Ian.  Now it is bare metal in there, this sounds like a good idea!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 20, January, 2016, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 11, January, 2016, 10:47:47 PM
The best remedy would be a new one, but as you say pricey. A second hand one could be even worse than the one you have, although you may be lucky. Heres one on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321971375818?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Or make one. Maybe adapt one from a seven. Thats the route I would use personally

Just spotted this Adapt it?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-SEICENTO-FUEL-TANK-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/141866875188?hash=item2107ecb934:g:xKQAAOSwxN5WYDPm

Yep, I'm definitely avoiding the second-hand Spit tanks.

I like the idea of getting a tank from another car.  If mine is beyond repair I think this maybe the way forward.  There is plenty of room for a slightly different tank in the Spit.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 20, January, 2016, 09:23:19 PM
Nice to see some more work being done on the car Rob. How long before it's on the road do you think?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 20, January, 2016, 09:32:35 PM
Pretty sure that would be your best solution. Out of interest do you know the Spitfire tank dimensions?
I have had several Spits over the years, sold the last one in '91.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 22, January, 2016, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 20, January, 2016, 09:32:35 PM
Pretty sure that would be your best solution. Out of interest do you know the Spitfire tank dimensions?

Yes, the tank is 870mm long, 240mm wide and 270mm high.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 22, January, 2016, 09:09:32 PM
QuoteI have had several Spits over the years, sold the last one in '91.

Is that why you still have the Biggles outfit Benchmark?  ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 22, January, 2016, 10:40:37 PM
No, it's a replacement. Lost the original on a previous job
(http://s9.postimg.org/fkdsya7cr/LANC.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fkdsya7cr/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Gary RH7 on 22, January, 2016, 11:24:37 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 22, January, 2016, 10:40:37 PM
No, it's a replacement. Lost the original on a previous job
(http://s9.postimg.org/fkdsya7cr/LANC.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fkdsya7cr/)

Look quite dapper with short hair Dave. Was Jane the ex? :P :P :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 23, January, 2016, 12:06:54 AM
I wish! Think my hair was short? You should see it now. Had a run in with Geronimo recently :o
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 29, January, 2016, 05:10:26 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 11, January, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
For insurance you could then use the repair kit to lacquer the new one and be doubly sure.

Since the inside of the tank is now clean and rust free, I decided to use some POR15 fuel tank sealer which stop any new rust forming and seal any leaks.

(http://s24.postimg.org/t10bvx39t/POR15.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/t10bvx39t/)

It is easy to use.  Simply pour into the cleaned tank, seal the hole and then slowly turn the tank over and over to coat the whole inside.  I bought the 473ML version.  I wasn't sure it would have been enough for the Spit's 8.5 gallon tank.  In fact it turned out to be more than enough and I drained off nearly half of the POR15 after coating the inside.  It says it takes about 96 hours to fully cure.

I did make a small schoolboy error.  As with other POR15 products they stick like the proverbial to everything; metal, garage floors, clothes and skin and won't come off.  And I did it all with no gloves on.  Very clever!  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: sanzomat on 29, January, 2016, 06:11:51 PM
Hope it works!

And I hope you like your new look!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Moleman on 29, January, 2016, 07:54:28 PM
I have a belt sander if you need some thing to help remove it.  :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 29, January, 2016, 09:48:51 PM
Rob it sounds like this stuff is Polyurethane if it has bonded to skin - and it usually goes unhealthily black too.  If so and it is really bonded, try dissolving it with acetone or nail varnish remover.  As soon as it is softens wash with grit soap.  Your hands will be sore afterwards and you will need some hand-cream.  Another gentler way and 80% effective is to smother you hands with hand cream and put on vinyl gloves for a couple of hours then try the grit soap twice. 

It will come off in a couple of weeks by itself but that is the skin going with it.  Sympathy - I have done this with expanding foam!

Ian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 29, January, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
Rob - I've got plenty of neat acetone if you need it, it's works a little better than nail varnish as it doesn't have any oil in it.

It's really good stuff, it'll even take s**t off a blanket...... so I'm told :o ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 29, January, 2016, 11:12:57 PM
Quote from: robp on 29, January, 2016, 05:10:26 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 11, January, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
For insurance you could then use the repair kit to lacquer the new one and be doubly sure.

It says it takes about 96 hours to fully cure.


Can you live that additional delay to the rebuild?

Cheers Adrian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: peterw on 30, January, 2016, 03:54:33 PM
I used that stuff on my tank after it sprang a small leak on a crack, does exactly what it says on the tin, recomend it
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 30, January, 2016, 08:51:01 PM
Where did you pick that up from? ::)

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 30, January, 2016, 09:16:46 PM
I have seen that on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=+POR15+fuel+tank+sealer+&_sacat=0
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 30, January, 2016, 09:22:55 PM
Quote from: benchmark51 on 30, January, 2016, 09:16:46 PM
I have seen that on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=+POR15+fuel+tank+sealer+&_sacat=0

Yes, that's the stuff.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 30, January, 2016, 09:25:30 PM
Quote from: Daley Down Under on 29, January, 2016, 11:12:57 PM
Quote from: robp on 29, January, 2016, 05:10:26 PM
Quote from: Iancider on 11, January, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
For insurance you could then use the repair kit to lacquer the new one and be doubly sure.

It says it takes about 96 hours to fully cure.


Can you live that additional delay to the rebuild?

Cheers Adrian

Yes, I know .  96 hours has ruined my whole project plan!   :D :D :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 30, January, 2016, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: 'The Gaffer' on 20, January, 2016, 09:23:19 PM
Nice to see some more work being done on the car Rob. How long before it's on the road do you think?

It'll be done when it's done, Phil.  I'd like to think it'll be ready for the summer....


.... but I said that last year!  ;D ;D :P

To be honest, it is quite far down the list of priorities at the moment.  I have a couple of small jobs to do on the Westfield so that takes precedence over any time I have in the garage.  We'll get there!  :-[
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 09, April, 2016, 04:35:32 PM
The Spitfire has only gone and passed it's MOT today!  ;D ;D ;D

Holy cow.  We gonna finally be on the road this year!  :o 8) :P

I need to get the car resprayed now and get the new hood fitted but we're nearly there.  Only about 3 years late!  ??? :D ;)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 09, April, 2016, 06:47:30 PM
Nice one Rob! I love those little spitties, if I were to buy a little classic I think it would be near top of my list of wants. Yellow I think (seriously) that was always the colour I fancied back in the day.

Always wanted one back when I was young but never got it and then I bought my Elan +2 so that was that!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 09, April, 2016, 07:26:15 PM
Good work Rob 8)

It's reminded me to get the number of the guy who sprayed the Go Inspire car if you're still interested?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 09, April, 2016, 10:12:12 PM
Result  :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 10, April, 2016, 10:59:28 AM
Quote from: robp on 09, April, 2016, 04:35:32 PM
The Spitfire has only gone and passed it's MOT today!  ;D ;D ;D

Holy cow.  We gonna finally be on the road this year!  :o 8) :P

I need to get the car resprayed now and get the new hood fitted but we're nearly there.  Only about 3 years late!  ??? :D ;)

Well done Rob 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Bulldog Bri on 10, April, 2016, 12:10:17 PM
Great news Rob. Just in time for the sun as well. ;D

8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Gary RH7 on 10, April, 2016, 07:55:52 PM
Well done Rob. It will be good to see another old Triumph on the road. Is it standard equipment or are there any go faster mods?
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: sanzomat on 10, April, 2016, 08:43:52 PM
Fantastic! Looking forward to seeing it.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 10, April, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: Gary RH7 on 10, April, 2016, 07:55:52 PM
Well done Rob. It will be good to see another old Triumph on the road. Is it standard equipment or are there any go faster mods?

Yellow paint Gary, well proven to make any car faster!!!  :P :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Gary RH7 on 10, April, 2016, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: Facial Hair Optional on 10, April, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: Gary RH7 on 10, April, 2016, 07:55:52 PM
Well done Rob. It will be good to see another old Triumph on the road. Is it standard equipment or are there any go faster mods?

Yellow paint Gary, well proven to make any car faster!!!  :P :P

What As a petrol additive? You are not suggesting I actually PAINT the car. Even Col is moving towards BLACK
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 11, April, 2016, 09:02:19 AM
Quote from: Lucky Ed on 09, April, 2016, 07:26:15 PM
It's reminded me to get the number of the guy who sprayed the Go Inspire car if you're still interested?

Yes please, Ed.  I have heard he did a great job on that car.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Lucky Ed on 11, April, 2016, 11:06:11 AM
Rob, I'll get his contact details today and let you know.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Iancider on 11, April, 2016, 10:46:29 PM
Good to hear it's getting there!

Ian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 03, June, 2016, 10:39:11 AM
Well, a quick update...

I have been driving the Spitfire during the evenings and weekends.  I have been going further each time.  The car hasn't been on the road for over 10 years so it is shakedown testing at the moment.  It hasn't let me down yet!  8)

It looks very tatty at the moment as each panel is a different colour!  I have it booked in for a respray in a couple of weeks time so, hopefully, when I get it back I can think about taking the bag off my head when driving!  :P
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 03, June, 2016, 10:42:27 AM
Quote from: robp on 03, June, 2016, 10:39:11 AM
Well, a quick update...

I have been driving the Spitfire during the evenings and weekends.  I have been going further each time.  The car hasn't been on the road for over 10 years so it is shakedown testing at the moment.  It hasn't let me down yet!  8)

It looks very tatty at the moment as each panel is a different colour!  I have it booked in for a respray in a couple of weeks time so, hopefully, when I get it back I can think about taking the bag off my head when driving!  :P

Not sure a respray will make a difference re bag on head Rob  :D

Cheers Adrian

PS: good work
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 27, June, 2016, 01:49:45 PM
The Spit project continues to move on at pace (of a glacier :-*).  Finally off to the paintshop today. :D

(https://s31.postimg.org/nlw641c93/2016_06_27_08_07_20.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nlw641c93/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 27, June, 2016, 11:19:15 PM
Excellent news - love those twin exhausts  :D

Cheers AT
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 28, June, 2016, 07:46:13 PM
Momentous step Rob 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Brandy Barrel on 11, July, 2016, 08:14:47 AM
Absolutely brilliant posting lots of technical and feedback on bits. If you keep this 'diary' up it will be fab to see the progress.
Well done guys, whilst I have no interest in spitfires I still read every word, better than my EVO mag....
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 11, July, 2016, 11:59:58 AM
Thanks for the comments.

The car is all in primer now and should be painted this week all going well.  I'm going to try and pop around and get some photos of how it is now.

Then starts the process of bolting everything back on again. :D
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 11, July, 2016, 12:36:02 PM
Nice update, should be a real head-turner when its all up together 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: YellaBelly on 11, July, 2016, 01:17:07 PM
Nice to see Rob! I'm glad it wasn't just me taking for ever to get the Midget restored ;)

We've also decided not to sell the Midget now, she is very close to MOT and after all the hard work and hours/money we've spent it seems criminal not to at least drive her for a year. So here's to a good July, August and September at least :)

Be good to see yours after the paint shop :)

JB
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 11, July, 2016, 06:12:43 PM
Quote from: robp on 11, July, 2016, 11:59:58 AM
Thanks for the comments.

The car is all in primer now and should be painted this week all going well.  I'm going to try and pop around and get some photos of how it is now.

Then starts the process of bolting everything back on again. :D
There was a very nice red spitty parked next to me at Queen Square yesterday Rob, the guy was very friendly and had rebuilt the car in '99 and done over 100,000 miles it it since all over Europe! I'm sure you two could have talked for hours about your cars  :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 12, July, 2016, 09:44:43 AM
Here are a few photos of the Spitfire in the paintshop.  I'm delighted with the quality of the work so far.  All going well should be ready within a week.  8) 8) 8)

(https://s31.postimg.org/vx5s613w7/2016_07_12_09_19_33.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vx5s613w7/)
Don't worry it's not going to be red!
(https://s31.postimg.org/rzef9f30n/2016_07_12_09_20_12.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rzef9f30n/)

(https://s32.postimg.org/m7ufkcp8h/2016_07_12_09_19_11.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m7ufkcp8h/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 22, July, 2016, 04:26:54 PM
Well, I collect the Spitfire from the bodyshop today.  Wow!  8) 8)  It looks great!

I now have to start putting it all back together!
(https://s31.postimg.org/dw8lqrqdz/2016_07_22_12_40_26.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dw8lqrqdz/)
(https://s31.postimg.org/3qfkv9ymv/2016_07_22_13_19_35.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3qfkv9ymv/)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Facial Hair Optional on 22, July, 2016, 06:50:16 PM
Looks very nice Rob. Don't scratch it putting everything back on!
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: Daley Down Under on 23, July, 2016, 08:26:57 AM
Very smart mate  8)

Cheers Adrian
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 24, July, 2016, 12:06:02 PM
Indeed, very smart 8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 24, July, 2016, 04:26:56 PM
Nice job. When I did my last one, I remember refitting the splash cards each side of the engine and thinking 'nope, don't like that'. Painted them black, still didn't like it. Ended up making new ones out of ally! Looked pretty good.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: robp on 06, February, 2017, 10:38:37 AM
Latest update.  (it has been a while!)

I'm nearly there!  I've got most of the stuff back on the car now after the respray.  The windscreen was fun.  The old rubber was perished so I bought a new one.  I also replaced the brightwork strip.  Getting the screen in is not too difficult.  It is trying to get the chrome on that is tricky.  I tried putting it all together in various orders.  Chrome on to rubber first was straightforward enough but I really struggled to get the rubber on to the screen without it coming off.  Rubber on to screen first and chrome was still a pain.

Eventually I gave up and dropped the car into National Windscreens in Bristol.  They fitted the screen to the car first which they managed easily.  Then the chap tried to get the chrome on.  After 20 minutes he has only got the first straight part on and was struggling on the first corner.  His colleague came over and said 'you don't want to do it like that' and pulled it off (which the first chap wasn't too happy about!).  Instead they used a cord with the chrome too and it was all done in no time.  One of the corners was a little tricky but it is all in now and looks perfect.  I'm very happy with the results and can recommend these guys. 

Believe it or not, this is the first time the chrome has been on the car in over 30 years!  It is really worth the hassle fitting it as it really lifts the whole look of the car

(http://thumb.ibb.co/geRG1F/Spit_Windscreen.jpg) (http://ibb.co/geRG1F)

I'm currently repairing the seats.  Most of the foam has turned to powder!  I should have this done in the next couple of weeks.

The car is now taxed, MOT and insured.  There is still a list of things to sort out but nothing (apart from the seats) to stop me getting out on road at last!  8)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: fullpint on 06, February, 2017, 03:48:40 PM
WOW what a change. Looking very smart in Yellow :)
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: benchmark51 on 06, February, 2017, 05:17:40 PM
Nice and bright, like the wheels too.
Title: Re: Another Triumph Spitfire
Post by: 'The Gaffer' on 07, February, 2017, 08:49:32 PM
Looks fantastic Rob, you should be very proud 8)