Floor mounted peddle box opinion

[damouk]

It suddenly pinged back into my head that I need to look at the brakes on the V-storm, (the story of the V-storm brakes is that the car was designed with the high end braking system from the Westfield, whilst this is perfect for the westie, its not right at all for a mid engine car like mine ) I did look into this quite some time ago but it was going to be expensive replacing rear callipers and adding separate ones for the handbrake. I had discounted going down the bias bar route as the bespoke peddle box for the car would not accommodate another cylinder, and the thought of adding remote cylinders was going to be a pretty messy solution.

So.... whilst I was sat looking at the stripped out chassis last night, I had a eureka moment and realised I could do away with the current peddle box and fit a nice floor mounted one with a bell and a whistle, I think with the correctly sized cylinders the VAG rears should be up to the job.

My only reservation is that I have never driven a car with floor mounded peddles, and am wondering if I will regret changing them, anyone in the club got them?

[Lucky Ed]

I've got floor mounted pedals in my MAC#1 and I think that suit this sort of car really well. I find there's plenty of adjustment to get the pedals just where you want them, so it makes heel and toeing a lot easier.

Have a look at OBP's website, their boxes have got a good name and look good value for money. There was also a post on LCBers recently saying the Wilwood ones were quite good value.

[Iancider]

I have always been happy with my floor mounted pedals.  If you have a fluid operated clutch then the cylinders need to be right sized to get the operating pint and range right or you might find your self pointing your toe too much on depression.

Ian

[Facial Hair Optional]

I've got them on the ASBO Damo, no problems with them at all. Plus I think they look cooler too 

[damouk]

I thought I had replied earlier but it seems like I hadn't...?!?

Funnily enough I am looking at the OBP ones Ed and will probably purchase in the next couple or days or so as it makes sense to get the mountings sorted before the chassis goes for powder coat. There are some really nice ones about but they don't have a nice price tag by the time you have added all the bits up, the obp ones are a little more than I wanted to spend but it is still a fair few quid cheaper than the calliper route.

The original peddle box is 5:1 ratio as is the floor mounted one so would I be right in assuming the current cylinder will be the correct size for the clutch, you have me wondering now Ian?

My mate at work said the looks cool... 'just like they are in a go cart'

[CC Cyclone]

Hi Damo,
I have had kit cars with both top and bottom mounted pedals, generally speaking the floor mounted pedals have had a lot more feel and precision to them, however, you really do get what you pay for and some of the more budget end options are best avoided in my experience, it would be worth trying before you buy if you can, I had a car with one of the budget end obp floor mounted boxes and it was not much fun. On the other hand my old westfield had a top end one from tilton? I think and it was night and day in terms of feel.

One other thing to consider is that lots of the floor mounted ones are designed to be bolted or welded to both the floor and the bulkhead and will twist if they are not. I can't remember if your car has a bulkhead?!

Hope that is useful.
James.

[Iancider]

Matching cylinders for clutch travel. 

Any cylinder has a code on the side that states the bore.  So you need to look at your clutch cylinder first.  Lets say the Clutch actuator cylinder is 24mm diameter and the pedal cylinder is 30mm then the ratio will be to magnify the clutch-slave movement by 6/24 [30-24=6] or by 25/%. 

If you push the pedal by 50mm then the clutch actuator is magnified to 50+25% = 62.5mm.  It also means if the weight of the clutch spring is 10lb then the force you feel at the pedal will be magnified to 12.5 lbs.  This set-up decreases the pedal movement and magnifies the force or "weight".

You can also run an under-size master to have the exact opposite effect or go 1:1.  At 1:1 the stroke length and weight is exactly the same as felt at the clutch actuator.

Brakes go the same way but you then have to remember if you are running multi-pot calipers to multiply the volume received by the number of pots - thus you end up with a pretty big master or a long pedal movement to shift enough volume.  Usually the master is a little undersize to give more mechanical advantage (less leg force) but that does increase the pedal movement.  A firmer and shorter pedal movement will feel more reassuring but you will have to press very hard. 

With brakes remember the pressures are very high and you should only use metal mesh braided brake lines.  Otherwise the pipes expand and make the pedal feel very spongy.

Ian

[damouk]

Hi James thanks for your info, I am looking at the premium v2, but what's in a name.. The peddle area of the v storm is easiest described as a cube minus the top and front, although the stearing rack is bolted to the far end. I'm planning on bolting it down to a welded in 3 or 4mm plate and fixing in a cross brace behind the cylinders for strength.

Currently the clutch is 1:1 with .75 cylinders and the travel was ok with the existing peddles also 5:1 ratio.

I have the brake bible spreadsheet from the net which ties up with the numbers one of the other owners was calculating a couple of years ago but he replaced the calipers rather then the peddle box.

There are a couple of numbers i haven't decyphered yet in there but it's to late for my brain to work them out today.

From the calcs I need 40/60 bias for .9g decel and 55/45 for 1.1g

The current system gives 67/33 which seems to be way out and explains why the fronts were locking so easily.

I think I have managed to size cylinders to bias pretty close for 1.1g at the bias bar center and to reduce the peddle force from 125lbs down to just over 70

[damouk]

Well after my last rant thread finally some good news, some shiny bits turned up today, they are even the bits I ordered as well!
                                       

[Lucky Ed]

Nice - something else to add to the wishlist

[sanzomat]

Very nice!

[Facial Hair Optional]

Well after my last rant thread finally some good news, some shiny bits turned up today, they are even the bits I ordered as well!
                                       

Looks like the same bias adjusting screw I have in mine mate.

I think I will check my pedals later see if they have OBD or whatever on them.

All looking very, very smart indeed dude 

[damouk]

Hopefully the mountings for it will be sorted tonight, and that's pretty much it for the chassis mods, ready for powder coat... still waiting for Nick to get back to me.

[Moleman]

Yep I like my floor mounting pedals mate & the ones you got look nice. 

[damouk]

Good to hear more positives about the floor mounts. Tonight we have modified the gear stick mounting bracket to be stronger and lower to the floor, but more importantly cut out the thin floor and welded in a stronger mounting plate so almost ready for powder coat