bike engined reverse

[aliwizard]

hi guys ,just wondering if anyone has come across a electric reverse for bike powered cars , mk has got one for 350.00 but just wondering  if there are any others out there,allso its a 1998 zzr1100 on carbs, i have been told this is not going to be easy to put throught iva any, coments would be helpfull, cheers nick.

['The Gaffer']

I am getting an electric reverse fitted after the summer. It was made up by AB performance.

As far as I can tell, any electric reverse is usually a bike starter motor that connects to the prop with a gear sproket. So the only difference I guess would be build quality of all the components. MK are a pretty renouned company, so I wouldent think they would sell rubbish, not a bad price either.

As far as IVA and your engine choice, I cant help, but wonder what the problem would be?

[dave_bence]

The main problem will be the emissions test.

For SVA/IVA, a 1998 motorcycle engine fitted in a car will have to pass the same emissions test as a 1998 car engine: Idle CO2 0.5% max; fast idle CO2 0.3% max,  HC 200 parts per million max, lambda 0.97-1.03.

Any 1998 car engine will be fitted as standard with fuel injection, an oxygen sensor and a catalytic converter, so as long as everything's working properly, it will pass the test easily.

Your 1998 motorcycle engine has carbs, no oxygen sensor and no cat. I have read that it is possible to fit a cat to a carburetted motorcycle engine and to temporarily adjust the air/ fuel mixture and/or ignition timing to scrape through the test.

I'll try and find the relevant article and post a link to it.

['The Gaffer']

Hmmm, I wonder, does that apply to MOT's as well?

[dave_bence]

Possibly, see here:

http://www.totalkitcar.com/tkc_article_252.php

However, a kit car's V5C document may show lower limits for the test on its front page.

Also, as kit cars are such a tiny percentage of MOT tests, many testers still seem to think "oh, it's a kit car, that'll just be a visual smoke test then"

That's what my local tester always did. Unfortunately, he retired recently!

['The Gaffer']

Thanks, I guess I'l cross that bridge when I come to it. MOT not due till 2010.
Will check out those links.

Think the age of the engine makes a difference too for MOT's and emissions.

That's what my local tester always did. Unfortunately, he retired recently!

Thats a shame mate 

EDIT: Just looked at my Registration Certificate and it says under special notes,

SVA Cert issued 21.10.2006 Emission limit %CO 3.5 HC 0.12

Does that mean that the limits were already set at the SVA and as long as they are the same or lower, then MOT no problem?

[dave_bence]

That's good news.

Perhaps the car was originally SVA'd with an earlier engine (pre august 95 was the cut off, I think). If so, the emissions limits stay the same as on your V5C.

No cat needed!

I put my Onyx through SVA with a 1990 1.4 K-Series engine. My V5C states the same limits as yours. When I later fiited a 1998 1.8VVC engine, the limits stayed the same.

['The Gaffer']

Ah, so some good news there. 

So, we could fit huge 427 big block V8's and never have emissions probs lol.

[dave_bence]

Perhaps not - I've got enough understeer already!

Just found these:

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/7.3%20Exhaust%20Emissions%20-%20Spark%20Ignition%20-%20non%20CAT%20Test.pdf

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/7.3%20Emmissions%20-%20Spark%20Ignition%20-%20Passenger%20Cars%201992-2002.pdf

Note the comments in the box at the bottom right of the first link, re SVA'd cars.

['The Gaffer']

Perhaps not - I've got enough understeer already!

Note the comments in the box at the bottom right of the first link, re SVA'd cars.

Yeah, V8 slight overkill maybe 

The box says it all really, good find.

Anyway, not to hijack aliwizard's original post, back to his reverse box and engine IVA topic.

[the tattoo studio]

well, back on topic of the original thread, I decided to sign up to this forum...

I'm building a Mk1 escort, useing a CBR1000F engine, and to get reverse, I have taken a BMW 328i box, binned all the gears apart from 4th and reverse, trimmed out the bellhousing, and I'm mounting this direct onto the output shaft of the bike engine.

[Richard]

Interesting solution.

Any reason for 328i gearbox ? If I'm recalling correctly that ZF box 4th gear ratio is 1.24.

If someone didn't have a BMW box getting a 318 would be cheapest option but not built for extensive M3 type power of course. And funny enough I've got one in the garage taking up space with 4th gear at 1.22. From a weight perspective with the parts stripped out as suggested above there is no differences between the casings and what is left across the 3 series range.

Welcome to the club ! 
Sounds an interesting project in a classic shaped body, perhaps a slightly different sound though  to the original

[the tattoo studio]

well, it had to be a Bm box, solely down to the lack of tail piece, and the ease of gear selection, 328i because it was local to me.

If I was prepared to drive more than 5 miles for a box, I could have piced up a 316/318/518/320/520 all day long for the same price as i paid for mine

£30

but I missed out on a 535 engine and box, local to you guys in bristol for a grand total of £3.75.

I'll add up more pictures of the project as I get going

['The Gaffer']

Hi there and welcome to the forum, if you have 5 mins please post in the intro area and tell us alittle about you, your car, and where you are.

That is one ingenious piece of engineering, but how much does it actually weigh in real terms in kg's? Any idea?

Good luck with the build.

[the tattoo studio]

I'll weigh it when its got the gubbings all fitted to connect it to the output shaft of the bike engine....

currently it weighs about the same as a 15" steel wheel and tyre, how ever much that is, but thats complete with all the gears still intact....so around 8 kilos....but should be able to get that down to about 5 kilos

[the tattoo studio]

few more pics

[Bulldog Bri]

Impressive.

['The Gaffer']

I still think its a great idea but the shear size would be a big problem in a kit car where there is very tight chassis space.

This is a typical kit car reverse box.

[the tattoo studio]

but the shear size would be a big problem in a kit car where there is very tight chassis space.

thats very true, but if it will take a pinto with a 5 speeder, it will have more than ample room for this.

curious though, how much is one of them boxes, looks nice and small, £150/£200?

['The Gaffer']

thats very true, but if it will take a pinto with a 5 speeder, it will have more than ample room for this.

curious though, how much is one of them boxes, looks nice and small, £150/£200?

Yes, but the car engined kit car chassis would be designed to fit the pinto and gearbox. I guess if you wanted to change to a bike engine then not so much of a problem as space already there. With a bike engined variant the chassis would be built to accept the bike engine and prop only, thats why the reverse box has to be so small to fit into the tunnel.

Prices are £350+

Nice pics by the way.

[Richard]

This discussion does make you wonder if some similar setup could not be achieved with a smaller sourced box rather than a bespoke one, especially as for IVA I think you now must have reverse.

Not knowing bike engines were there older models that had separate gearboxes that were small and do a similar arrangement to Pawl's ? or something small and new like "Smart / Aygo" ?

[the tattoo studio]

could always fit a triumph preunit, harley or vincent engine, they have seperate gearboxes.

I had an impwing once, that was a hillman imp engine, in a gold wing frame (almost norton fetherbed in looks), behind the engine was a 400 superdream engine with the barrels and pisons removed, and a blanking plate fitted, I then got rid of the crank shaft, and replaced this with a hardened steel bar, machined to fit the crank journals, and then mounted a chain between the bar and the imp engine. It reved really quick due to lack of car flywheel, and was really easy to kick over useing the superdreams kick start.

as the Meerkat says, Simples

[Richard]

Thats it then, this should be your avatar, Simples.



Before Tattooing 

['The Gaffer']

haha I like it.

Pawl, if you dont let me know and I will remove it

[the tattoo studio]

It's fine, kinda suits me.....

[the tattoo studio]

oops, where did it go?

[Richard]

Proper car !

Did you see the vaux in one of the pics at last meet ?  definitely not standard, sounded way too different and the suspension was behaving over the bumps.

On reverse gear, is there an option for a second clutch and gear?
or perhaps a way to use a starter motor so an electrical approach to a separate connection  ?
Keeps weight down and may not pass an IVA but would probably be ok on a current vehicle ?

['The Gaffer']

Hows that, simples is back and sig pic a bit more proportional?

[the tattoo studio]

lush.

My granny is running a rover V8, gm auto bellhousing, mitsubishi l200 centerplate, vectra release bearing, home made adaptor, 2.8 typre 9 box, and a scimitar se5 1 piece prop, BM e34 master cylinder and a lexus clutch and brake pedal.

wonder if I can add a link to the tube

['The Gaffer']

Proper car !

Did you see the vaux in one of the pics at last meet ?  definitely not standard, sounded way too different and the suspension was behaving over the bumps.

On reverse gear, is there an option for a second clutch and gear?
or perhaps a way to use a starter motor so an electrical approach to a separate connection  ?
Keeps weight down and may not pass an IVA but would probably be ok on a current vehicle ?

Bike starter motor is quite common with a sproket attached to the prop

[the tattoo studio]

A friends car I'm rebuilding for her at the mo

[the tattoo studio]

BTW that celica is going to be broken up if anyone needs any bits

[the tattoo studio]

Just an update, I forced my mate to drag that Celica out....it's a non runner, electrical fault.....any who, yesterday, I ripped the top of the inlet manifold off, cut a piece of 6 mm checker plate, drilled all the appropriate holes,, cut 4 bits of tube, welded the lot together and fitted some ZX9R carbs, ripped the dizzy out, and fitted a vacuum less Cooper S dizzy, and a set of points...

Thing should run like a dream now......so will no longer be parted out.

[Richard]

That sounds a fun day fiddling 

[the tattoo studio]

bike carbs and points, what more do you need?

Unfortuneatly got the wrong dizzy cap and rotor, so fire up is tomorrow

['The Gaffer']

Wow 

[the tattoo studio]

mates car, one day the engine management light came on, it spluttered and died.

it spent a total of 6 months at an auto electricians (mates rates) they didnt get it going, its had all new sensors through out, every wire in the car checked over, new ecu....then he just gave up on it....

took me 2 hours with a pillar drill and got it running, all be it super rough as the dizzy cap and points were just mush....total cost, £20 for the carbs (ZX9R), £0 for the manifold adapter, 50p for the dizzy, £18 from halfrauds for the cap, rotor and points....

going electronic once the postal stikes over £18.

this is just the type of guff that goes on at my gaff:)

[the tattoo studio]

[the tattoo studio]

running like a turd, cause its got lots of open vacuum hoses, and the air mixture is way out due to the open throttle mouths.

had to reangle the carbs to stop them over flowing, but this is a tempory fix as I have to shorten the manifold so clear the bonnet, but it was just built via guestimation, so a bit of nip tuck and i'll get a fliter over that lot.

['The Gaffer']

Have you ever thought of getting a team together for Scrap Heap Challenge on TV?

Thats not an insult to your work, its a compliment too your skills