hello from Russia

[IceMan]

Hello people.
I am new here. The reason why I am here: I want to buy a kit car from UK and bring it down to S.Petersburg where I live. In fact building a car from a kit is not a very popular thing in Russia. I want to change that thing, so hopefully ppl around me will follow me.
I need an advice which kit-car is the best for a beginner, since I've never been building any cars in my live, only snowmobiles. But that is a different story.
I have a master-degree in geophysics, and uncompleted PhD. I have been studying at Southhampton. So, I am good in reading and understanding any technical papers in English, and I do some programming.
Anything more, just ask me.

[IceMan]

I have browsed some companies that produce car kits. I think I would go with a "7 Lotus" replica, because I liked a body type, it is also seems easy to build.
My first decisious was about a Robin Hood kit. Its quite cheap, looks good esp. in red & silver. Unfortunately, after reading some review on madaboutkitcars.com, I've started to doubt. People say it cheap, but too difficult to build, because a lot of extra materials and skils are required and many parts are not fitted together. Some guys even complained about summetry of frame that they're producing. Wheels are not alighned they say.
Well I know nothing about kit cars and not going to throw any stoyns at Robin Hood.
I just have no expertise in building cars, I am very afraid that may stuck somewhere in the middle and quite the whole project. My wife said, had I do so she wouldn't stay with me anymore :-(. My brother aslo quite sceptical that I am kinda a computer-kind guy not a mechanic he said.
I have a budget around 10 000$ or 7000 pounds. So, I can't efford Westfield neither Caterham, they are too expensive to me.  I do realise that would be a perfect choice for me.
I looked at Dax Rush. That car looks a quite impressive when finally completed. At least seems to, compare to the Robin Hood. Looks brilliant. They aslo promise the excellent quality of their products, in addition to that I may get the whole kit in 6 stages, so I may pay these 7k in stages. But there are also a drawback: I couldn't find any discussions boards or forums with tech support for people who build these DAX cars. 
May be you may suggest me some other options?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards 

[paintman]

Hello Iceman and welcome to our club.

I think you got the prize for the member living furthest from the UK!

There are a lot of kits out there (in the UK) as you know but I would personally start with something simple and plentiful, that you can adapt for different engines.

I would suggest a  "Seven Style" car such as a Catterham, Westfield or Robin Hood.....

Good luck.   Tony

[IceMan]

Thanks a lot for the replay Paintman.  :-)
what do you think about DAX car?
The most important thing for me: the kit should contain all nessesary details with a good manual, that will allow me to build everything quickly without getting into many troubles. 
Caterham and WestFields are really nice I love the way they look but they cost around 14-16000 pounds.
The DAX is about 7-8000, half of that price.
BTW, what is the main difference between caterham and westfield? Would be nice to point to any webcite where add(+) and cons(-) for each kit are compared. Many reviews are desirable.
There are too many kits in our day to difficult to choose from.

[IceMan]

Yes, getting Robin was my first idea, but after reading that, I think I will go for something else. Let it be more expensive.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/feedback_table.php?114


>>>mark burley spent 6500 pounds  spent 450 hours >>>not a bad kit for the price, my main grouch is the >>>pannels, but hey for £1400 what do you expect. >>>mine would have been easier if i fitted a standard >>>engine, could have been done in three months! you >>>need much more skill to build this than any westfield >>>due to more building to do yourself

Kevin Newborough 3500 1 2 450
>>>Quite an easy build ,not the best 7 replica but >>>certainly good fun and value for money. 

>>>Paul Strycharczuk 6000 1 0 300 The build was a >>>nightmare !! You will need to be proficient at kit >>>building and have a lot of patience if attempting to >>>build one !!!

[Richard]

Hi - Iceman.

I may be a bit biased but for quality of Kit and ease of donor parts where you live have a look at GKD Legend kit. May be coming in just over your budget but that will be for everything and the build is now much simplified.

BMW E36/E46 donors vehicles with lots of reuse of components, more than a few of them around, so donors and spares are easy to obtain and being BMW they are relatively simple to use parts from across the range.

Don't think any have gone to Russia but certainly Sweden / Poland / Germany.

Was near you over the border last week.

['Mendip Wurzel']

Iceman

The older Robin Hood kitcars could be quite time consuming to building. However the company is now called 'Great Bristish Sporting Cars' and they produce a car called the Zero which is well designed and much easier to build.

http://www.robinhoodsportscars.co.uk/

The article you mentioned in Madabout Kitcars refers to an old model that is no longer produced, was by the old Robin Hood company and is possibly not a fair comparision of the current setup.

Great British Sporting Cars, or GBSC, are very helpful with good backup. The company is run by a chap called Richard Hall who often picks up the telephone himself if you ring the factory.

Kevin

['The Gaffer']

Hi and a warm welcome to our club.

Good luck with whatever you decide on, send us a few pics.

The well spec'd Dax will be much more expensive than a Zero.

There is a Dax owners forum here http://forum.daxsportingclub.com/phpBB3/index.php

[IceMan]

Hi - Iceman.

I may be a bit biased but for quality of Kit and ease of donor parts where you live have a look at GKD Legend kit. May be coming in just over your budget but that will be for everything and the build is now much simplified.

BMW E36/E46 donors vehicles with lots of reuse of components, more than a few of them around, so donors and spares are easy to obtain and being BMW they are relatively simple to use parts from across the range.

Don't think any have gone to Russia but certainly Sweden / Poland / Germany.

Was near you over the border last week.

Yes, that is actually a very good point. Because we have a plenty of BMW donors around. And these donors are not so old compare to the Ford sierra donors. Most of Ford Sierra cars too rusty to take them apart. For me it si seems crazy to buy a brand new expensive piece of dream-hardware and try installing there details from 30 years crippy vehicle. Doesn't do much sence to me.

[IceMan]

Hi and a warm welcome to our club.

Good luck with whatever you decide on, send us a few pics.

The well spec'd Dax will be much more expensive than a Zero.

There is a Dax owners forum here http://forum.daxsportingclub.com/phpBB3/index.php

I am negotiate with both suppliers at the moment. DAX looks more neat and complete to me. It looks like a real car. There are only one thing I can't find on their webpage- information about clearence.
One thing dissapoints me alot, there are a lot options not included in their "complete packages". For instance DAX Rolling shassis packedge- complete as they say for 7530 pounds, after studying I realised there are nor fuel tank, nor
exhaust included as well as many other important options.
Just been thinking if it possible to modify that car - to make clearence variable, not like on modern Audi cars of course, just using wrench :-). Doubt if they "state of the art" suspension will allow me to do so :-). Seems might be crazy to some of you, but road are not very good here and adjustable clearence is a very good option :-(.

[paintman]

Think this could be a real problem as most of the kits have no more than 100mm clearance......mine has only about 80mm!!

You will need to have pretty firm springs as well or you will be hitting the road if they are really bad on breaking and pot holes.

Saying that......there's no reason why you can't adapt the kit as you go to give you more clearance and maybe get 50mm taken off the sump by cutting and welding. (this is common practice with Pinto engines for example).

['Mendip Wurzel']

I have just been told that Richard Hall the owner of 'Great Bristish Sporting Cars' (Robin Hood) is just in the process of setting up a dealership in Russia.

info@greatbritishsportscars.co.uk

Kevin

['The Gaffer']

Coilovers fitted to most kit cars suspension will allow some adjustment of ride height.

[xr2 stu]

welcome to the site

[IceMan]

I have just been told that Richard Hall the owner of 'Great Bristish Sporting Cars' (Robin Hood) is just in the process of setting up a dealership in Russia.

info@greatbritishsportscars.co.uk

Kevin

I think its time to open my carts. It my wife and I who wants to start dealership with Robin Hood and start selling these Robin Hoods kits in Russia. We almost ready to sign a contract. However, there are some points that we want to work out, before signing the contract.
1. Prices.
2. According to the RH we should buy a demostrator and bring it down to Russia. Unfortunately, unfortunately bringing that demonstrator across the Russian border wil cost a fortune to us, we will have to pay a costum fees around 2.5 Euros per cubic cm.
3. Kit cars are not very popular in Russia. The main reason: difficulty with registration such vehicles on a Russian territory. During the USSR period regustration was a pretty straightforwards routine. We (car entusiast) had even govermental support. That was done to motivate ppl building their own cars. After fall of the USSR, Russian main car maker LADA had started feeling enourmous difficulties with selling their car inside of Russia. They couldn't compete with western brands, mainly with second-hand which were coming from abroad. So costum fees are arised.
Russians managed to avoid this obstacle by taking cars apart and bringing them across border in pieses. Afterwords, people were assembling them again.
So goverment fight again: in our days any frame or engine that crosses border should be registrated and costum fees must be paid. Without that car cannot be registrated.
Everyone hates that situation except LADA.
I am trying to figure out what to do.   

[IceMan]

Think this could be a real problem as most of the kits have no more than 100mm clearance......mine has only about 80mm!!

You will need to have pretty firm springs as well or you will be hitting the road if they are really bad on breaking and pot holes.

Saying that......there's no reason why you can't adapt the kit as you go to give you more clearance and maybe get 50mm taken off the sump by cutting and welding. (this is common practice with Pinto engines for example).

According to Russian rules car cannot be registrated and used on public road if has clearence less then 160mm. I guess you understand why I want to make that clearence variable, after passing that test people will just low their cars :-).

[paintman]

Very interesting Iceman......I shall be very interested to see how this all pans out!

['Mendip Wurzel']

Think this could be a real problem as most of the kits have no more than 100mm clearance......mine has only about 80mm!!

You will need to have pretty firm springs as well or you will be hitting the road if they are really bad on breaking and pot holes.

Saying that......there's no reason why you can't adapt the kit as you go to give you more clearance and maybe get 50mm taken off the sump by cutting and welding. (this is common practice with Pinto engines for example).

According to Russian rules car cannot be registrated and used on public road if has clearence less then 160mm. I guess you understand why I want to make that clearence variable, after passing that test people will just low their cars :-).

Ground clearance should not be an insurmountable problem. As previously mentioned you could possibly adjust the clearance on the coilover springs, fit longer coilover springs or even modify the wishbones etc. Being a kit car you can sort of do whatever you want. 

You could start a new trend in having the first off-road Lotus 7 kitcar.

[Casino]

You could start a new trend in having the first off-road Lotus 7 kitcars.
[/quote]
I think QuarryCar's present neighbour already has one of those.
He posted a picture fairly recently on the website but I can't find it to show it again,

[IceMan]

You could start a new trend in having the first off-road Lotus 7 kitcars.

I think QuarryCar's present neighbour already has one of those.
He posted a picture fairly recently on the website but I can't find it to show it again,
[/quote]

Would be extremely exited to see how it's looks like.
BTW, I have seen a picture from one guy from Canada who made a snowmobile from 7type Lotus.
He put skis in front, and tracks from Skii-doo instead of rear wheels. Could go up to 100 mp/h if road was good.
That's was a long ago, can't find these pictures on net anymore

[Quarrycars]

This is probaly what you were refering to, a Cadillac Northstar engined sand rail, fairly easy to make street legal in Arizona.  The Furore in the picture might meet the 160mm clearance rule with larger tyres and max suspension settings but would look a bit odd!

[Casino]

Thanks for helping me out on this one Quarrycars.

That was the car I was refering to.

There was, if my memory serves me well,  a side on photo of it being driven down the street.

[Quarrycars]

Yea, not actually registered for the street but nobody seems to worry much about that!

[Casino]

Yep.   That's the one,       thanks.

That should be able to take care of any rough roads and there's room for the mother-in-law in the back.

[Denzle]

A very warm welcome to the club Iceman.... I hope we can give you all the help you need in setting up your buisness and getting your first kit car rolling on the road.   

                                                  Denzle 

[IceMan]

A very warm welcome to the club Iceman.... I hope we can give you all the help you need in setting up your buisness and getting your first kit car rolling on the road.   

                                                  Denzle 

Thanks a lot Denzle.
I think firstly I will get that DAX car, and try building it by myself and see how the whole process looks like.
I am almost ready pay a deposit to them, they ask 30% at first. Unfortunately to understand all their options isn't a easy task. They offer too many similar packages and different options and these packages are overlapping. I am afraid to miss something important. I am working on it right now.
If anyone ever ordered that DAX please help me. For instance why these Rolling Chassis which include packages #1,2,3,4 and radiator cost 2000 pounds more then if I get just packages #1,2,3,4+ radiator. All these reburshed donor parts cost 2000? Did I missed anything?

[paintman]

I would ask them to email you a complete list of the kits parts in your circumstances, seeing as you live in Russia and can't get donor parts as easily as in the UK.

I'm sure they will be very helpful if there is a chance of a sell!

['The Gaffer']

IceMan,

It appears you are in limbo with your business venture right now, and with best intentions, some BKCC members are willing to advise you. Please respect though that any postings from BKCC members, including mine, are personal educated opinions and not sound business advisories.

As BKCC founder & admin, I cant allow the BKCC to become middle man between you and intended suppliers, so, I suggest you contact suppliers directly with supply queries so as there is no confusion as to what you 'get in the box' once ordered.

Personally? I find the fact that you weren't totally open in your first postings a little disrespectful but nevertheless I'm happy to let this thread run.

That aside, I do wish you all the best with your venture and am happy that our club is willing to help you. Just remember that any business decision you make is yours, and yours alone, and I expect no retaliation back to BKCC members should your venture fail for any reason.

No hard feelings, but just so we are clear.

[Bulldog Bri]

Hiya and welcome from me as well, sounds another interesting project in the making and wish you all the best with your endevours. Please keep us up to date with any progress. Another idea would be to try and get to Stoneleigh at the beginning of May, this is billed as the largest kitcar show in the world, so you'll be able to see all the different cars availible and talk to those that have already built them. We will be there as a club to, if so come and say 'Hi'

[IceMan]

IceMan,

It appears you are in limbo with your business venture right now, and with best intentions, some BKCC members are willing to advise you. Please respect though that any postings from BKCC members, including mine, are personal educated opinions and not sound business advisories.

As BKCC founder & admin, I cant allow the BKCC to become middle man between you and intended suppliers, so, I suggest you contact suppliers directly with supply queries so as there is no confusion as to what you 'get in the box' once ordered.

Personally? I find the fact that you weren't totally open in your first postings a little disrespectful but nevertheless I'm happy to let this thread run.

That aside, I do wish you all the best with your venture and am happy that our club is willing to help you. Just remember that any business decision you make is yours, and yours alone, and I expect no retaliation back to BKCC members should your venture fail for any reason.

No hard feelings, but just so we are clear.

Hello Gaffer,
Thanks for maling things clear. I realise that you have some rules here, and I might have violated them by asking too many silly questions. I just thought if we have a board then we can discuss things. I also undersand that any bisness decisions that I do on my whole responsibility. Anyway, people on that board seems very responsive and helpfull- greatest respect to all of them.
I would like to repeat: I came here not to violate any rules, I just have become kit-car addicted- want to build my own car.
In country where I live we have no information about kit cars, so I came here.
Have a nice day.

['The Gaffer']

Iceman, with respect, you are talking about setting up a business, not simply building a kit car.

As I' ve mentioned you are welcome to make the most of our forum but supply questions are for suppliers not the BKCC.

Enjoy your stay.