Alpha Webcon help

[mikebishop]

Hi,

I've had my Tiger Cat for 3 mouths now, it is a 2.0 silvertop zetec with a webcon injection system and engine management.

i have had a problem with the starting, its had a new battery and plugs, but still happens.
i had to call the AA out the first time and he said that it could be something to do with the cold start valve? but wasn't sure, he managed to start it, but it happened later the same day.

it seems ok if you manage to start it first time from stone cold after the battery charger has been connected over night.
but if you stall it or turn it off before its up too temperature then it just cranks over and over but really struggles to catch. sometimes i have managed to start it by depressing the throttle fully, but it only coughs and splutters in to life.

once it starts it ticks over and runs well,
but the starting problem makes me not want to take it out.

any help or advice would be greatly received.

[Camber Dave]

I have no experience of injection, but this is a trick with Weber/Delorto Carbs when they flood.
By pushing the throttle wide open while the engine cranks the excess fuel is diluted by excess air and so a better Air/Fuel ratio is established.
Rather as you describe they only splutter into life and closing the throttle restores normal running.

Assuming the battery and starter are turning the engine over fast enough, your cold start system is obviously at fault, Either too rich as above or too lean

[Balders1973]

Hi Mike,

I have no experience with webcon injection, but I have set up a megasquirt injection system.

The fact that it starts cold and then is a pain until it is fully warmed up seems to be mixture related as mentioned by Dave.

On the megasquirt / Zetec there are 2 factors in play,

the cold air bypass valve (normaly sets idle speed)
warmup enrichment - works a bit like a choke.

http://www.extraefi.co.uk/MSLVV_tuning.htm

The above is a good read for tuning the starting in general.
There's loads to read - search for injection warmup enrichment and have a pint / read!

Welcome to help if I can

[benchmark51]

I heard you starting up at Stoneleigh and your starter swung over quick enough, took a while to fire though. I had one of the last cortina's and if you touched the throttle pedal, even once, that was it - no start. If you didn't touch the throttle, just turned the key - started immediatley, everytime.
Assuming your air filter is ok, I would be looking for air leaks.

[stevel]

Mike.  There seems to be quite a few similar comments on the Westfield forum, most suggest cranking and water temp sensors as likely culprits.  There are not many people who can access the Webcon software as it is not open like the Megasquirt and Omex systems.  I know NMS can do it but Nothampton is a long way to go.  Maybe check Interprovincial at Thornbury or Mech up in Cheltenham.

Good luck!

[SPAXIMUS]

On fuel injection there are a few things that can stop a car starting. First is the Throttle potentiometer, or throttle pot. If this is loose then what the ECU thinks it is getting it is not.
Then on the MBE system, when you crank it pulls in the fuel pump, so that when the engine stops it does not pump fuel out in the event of a crash. This works on a relay on mine and they do fail intermittently. Webcon will have something similar
Third thing is the sensors, each one will need to tell the ecu certain information, air temp, coolant temp and if it has an exhaust lambda, then that as well.
A common problem is although they might look the same they are not and work on resistance. Again hard to tell unless you know what to look for.
Finally the map, if that is wrong then it will be the devil to start.
As someone mentioned, I have read that Webcon are the worst for allowing their system to be accessed so Interpro may have access but as said NMS can do them.
With cold start it is always a devil to do as you get one shot, then it has to fully cool and so on.

[mikebishop]

Thanks everyone for the advise, I will look into over the next few days, I think I maybe a bit beyond me, I will definitely check with interpro.
So frustrating!!

[Lucky Ed]

It does sound a bit like a sensor problem, seeing as you said the plugs were very wet when that very nice man from the AA took them out. You could try disconnecting the cold start valve, which will make it a bit of a pig to start from cold, but will be ok thereon, as the valve still seems to be operating when warm. If you don't get any joy locally it might be worth giving Webcon a call, as they were very helpful when I upgraded my engine and remapped it to suit for £50 and it worked a treat.

We can all have a look and make stupid suggestions on Thursday night - good luck

[dikkie]

I'm also no expert on webcon but with my emerald I don't have a cold start valve and it starts fine. However, whenever the ecu is first turned on it gives the first few cycles of the engine an extra rich setting to get it going. I have found repeatedly turning the ignition (completely) off and on again between cranking attempts resets the ecu and hence the counter, I can flood the engine quite easily doing this. Unlikely but could this be your problem?

I can also suggest the WOT on start up to clear out any excess fuel, most ecu's are even clever enough to detect the WOT at startup and know you're trying to get out of a flood situation, so don't inject any fuel at all.

Good luck!