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Author Topic: Another Triumph Spitfire  (Read 71442 times)

Offline robp

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Another Triumph Spitfire
« on: 13, November, 2012, 05:32:58 PM »
I have just got hold of an old Spitfire.  I briefly mentioned in Bluehornetrider's Spitfire thread but I thought I'd better start a new one. 



Picked it up from Cornwall last week and had quite a journey home through blue skies, heavy rain, hail and snow.  The hood on the car is quite old and doesn't fit very well.  Consequently the interior was soaked by the time I got back to Bristol.

Next job was to get it in the garage.
« Last Edit: 05, March, 2013, 03:54:59 PM by robp »

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #1 on: 13, November, 2012, 05:37:21 PM »
Finally in the garage.



The garage is located in a lane behind the houses.  Getting the trailer on to the lane was difficult enough.  Getting the car off the trailer and into the garage was even worse.  I had to use the Westfield to tow the trailer sideways, push the Spitfire into the garage and then pull the trailer straight again.  All done now but suddenly my garage is full up.

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #2 on: 13, November, 2012, 05:52:54 PM »
OK, managed to have a closer look at the car.

Good news:  Chassis, sills, floor and backend are solid.
Bad: Front wings, door skins need replacing.  A pillars are solid but need some attention.  Engine tired.  Rear brakes seized.  Bash with a lump hammer won't free off one of them which made moving the car a right pain.

The starter was spinning over but not turning the engine.  Took it off and cleaned up the inertia mechanism and engine was turning over, slowly.  Got sparks.  Put a fat battery on it but engine not turning over any faster.  I wonder if the starter motor is tired.  May ask if someone has a spare to try before I fork out on a replacement unit.

No fuel getting through anyway.  Plus the fuel in the tank is years old.

Decided to stop mucking about and get on with a plan to get the car ready for the Spring.  Initially I wanted to tackle the bodywork.  However, I decided to get the oily bits sorted first.  Engine compartment ain't pretty.  First thing, carbs.
« Last Edit: 14, November, 2012, 02:35:02 PM by robp »

Offline fullpint

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #3 on: 13, November, 2012, 05:54:30 PM »
Sounds like it was a task and a half mate..Still good to see its in the garage.. Liking those twin pipes coming out from underneath  8)

Offline Grin-a-lot

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #4 on: 13, November, 2012, 06:55:30 PM »
Are you training to be like Hairy Santa and BulldogBri?  Perhaps you should change your name to BulldogSanta?

Looks like a great project though, when you get your hotrod you'll have a properly full garage!

Offline Moleman

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #5 on: 13, November, 2012, 07:33:10 PM »
Hope it goes nice & smoothly for you mate. I mean Bulldogsanta.  ;D :P ;D :P

Offline Hairy Santa

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #6 on: 13, November, 2012, 07:38:54 PM »
OK, managed to have a closer look at the car.

Good news:  Chassis, sills, floor and backend are solid.
Bad: Front wings, door skins need replacing.  A pillars are solid but need some attention.  Engine tired.  Rear brakes seized.  Bash with a hammer won't free off one of them which made moving the car a right pain.

The starter was spinning over but not turing the engine.  Took it off and cleaned up the inertia mechanism and engine was turning over, slowly.  Got sparks.  Put a fat battery on it but engine not turning over any faster.  I wonder if the start is tired.  May ask if someone has a spare to try before I fork out on a replacement unit.


No fuel getting through anyway.  Plus the fuel in the tank is years old.

Decided to stop mucking about and get on with a plan to get the car ready for the Spring.  Initially I wanted to tackle the bodywork.  However, I decided to get the oily bits sorted first.  Engine compartment ain't pretty.  First thing, carbs.







Your my Hero Rob

Offline Daley Down Under

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #7 on: 13, November, 2012, 08:26:31 PM »
Rob,

Like it - very different types of open top motoring.  Good project for the Winter.

Adrian

Offline YellaBelly

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #8 on: 13, November, 2012, 09:05:29 PM »
Another good project there chap :D

I'm after a Triumph too, but a Stag ;)

trouble is, I ain't no money magnet :(

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #9 on: 13, November, 2012, 09:43:57 PM »
Had the carbs off and cleaned up (they were filthy!).  Look at lot better now.  Before and after photo to follow  ;)

Anyone know about SU carbs?  These are 1 1/2" HS4.  The fuel line that joins the bottom of the float chamber to the main jet tube has come loose (at the jet end).  I guess that means a new main jet tube.  Mine has the Waxstat type of jet that was used after 1976.  It has a thermostat installed at the bottom, which moves the jet up or down depending on the outside temperature.  Fixed jet to the left, waxstat jet to the right:



It's been years since I've played with carbs.  All laptops and injection systems nowadays. :D

Offline bluehornetrider

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #10 on: 13, November, 2012, 10:38:39 PM »
Your spit has lots of bits I'd like for mine, like the twin pipes.   :P
All the spit forums suggest replacing the unreliable wax stats on the carbs.   I have the same twin su's in mine. 
I'm stripping the engine at the moment so have only cleaned the exterior of the carbs and the pots. 
I need all new fuel and breather pipe connections as the originals have gone missing. 
I have a few spare starter motors but don't know which ones are good and which need scrapping.  I have seen new ones on eBay for around £60.

Offline 'The Gaffer'

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #11 on: 14, November, 2012, 01:04:54 PM »
Nice updates Rob, keep the pics coming 8)

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #12 on: 14, November, 2012, 02:17:07 PM »
All the spit forums suggest replacing the unreliable wax stats on the carbs.   I have the same twin su's in mine. 
Yes, I'll probably replace the waxstat part with a couple of 1p coins. However one of the jet tubes is knackered so many have to buy replacements anyway.

I have a few spare starter motors but don't know which ones are good and which need scrapping.
Thanks.  I've kicked off on the engine now so it'll be a while before I attempt another start.  Carbs stripped and cleaned.  Rocker shaft off, dismantled, cleaned.  Number of parts starting to build up on the bench.  Hopefully I'll have the head off and stripped over the next week.  I used to have a valve lapper which fitted to an electric drill.  Searched high and low for it last night.  Looks like it's going to be the wooden slick with suction cup and some elbow grease.

Once the head is off I'll have to decide to tackle the bottom end or leave it until next winter.  Can't be that difficult? http://bristolkitcarclub.co.uk/smf2/index.php?topic=2145.0;topicseen

I'm making good progress at the moment.  Not sure how long it'll last.  I just have the odd hour or 30 minutes here and there.  Got to keep SWMBO happy.  I've told her the car is for her to use next summer and I've got to make sure it's running well for her and looking good!  ;)

Offline Bulldog Bri

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #13 on: 14, November, 2012, 03:46:33 PM »
I'm Guilty of using a drill to grind in the valves by fitting the drill directly on the end of the valve allowing for a small amount of in and out movement and then spinning it and just adding small amounts of grinding paste while its turning, I got so fed up with the suction stick keep falling off.  >:(

 8)

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #14 on: 22, November, 2012, 10:35:38 AM »
Gradually making progress on the car.  I've got the manifolds off and cleaned up.  The exhaust and inlet manifolds are bolted together but unfortunately one connection has sheered off but I doubt this affect anything too much.  Water pump, pump housing and thermostat cover off.  Not a pretty sight inside.  Started cleaning all the crap off both inside and out.  I'm going to need a new pipe from the pump to the heater as the old one just fell apart.

Got a delivery of a few new parts.  On is a fixed jet kit for the carbs to replace my knackered waxstats so I can finally reassemble the carbs.  Getting quite a pile of bits on the bench in the garage now so I'm keen to sort stuff out as it comes off the car before removing anything else.  The cylinder head is ready to come off but I'll probably wait until I've had the radiator (and surrounds) off and inspected.  Really enjoying the rebuild so far and lookig forward to when everything starts coming back together again (whenever that is!)

Black brush on paint will be fine for the block.. ;)
The spray paint is a mixture of high temp paint and ceramic engine paint, I got one from halfords and the other from my local motor supplier.

I've got to paint head, block, water pump housing, timing cover, etc.  What do you guys think I should use?  Engine paint?, 'Black brush on paint'?  Excuse my ignorance. Any advice?

Offline bluehornetrider

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #15 on: 22, November, 2012, 04:33:06 PM »
I've just sprayed the head with anti rust paint then high temp black spray paint and it looks good, I'll try to post some pictures later, I bought some black hammer finish hammerite brush on for the block and will try that when I get round to it.
I sprayed the manifold with the high temp paint and after a few coats has come up nicely.
I sprayed the manifold cover ceramic paint red but not sure how well it will last on the ally.




Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #16 on: 29, November, 2012, 02:05:20 PM »
I've just sprayed the head with anti rust paint then high temp black spray paint and it looks good, I'll try to post some pictures later, I bought some black hammer finish hammerite brush on for the block and will try that when I get round to it.
I sprayed the manifold with the high temp paint and after a few coats has come up nicely.
I sprayed the manifold cover ceramic paint red but not sure how well it will last on the ally.
Many thanks for the advice. I bought some high temp paint for the exhaust and some other stuff for the engine.

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #17 on: 29, November, 2012, 02:11:18 PM »
Not pretty :o



Also, bolt sheared off on the thermostat cover.  Stud extractor or just drill it out and re-tap?



Offline fullpint

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #18 on: 29, November, 2012, 05:51:59 PM »
 :o WD40 a bit of heat and a good pair of mole-grips!! That may work..

Offline YellaBelly

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #19 on: 29, November, 2012, 07:28:29 PM »
Nah! Lots of heat with a blow torch chap (not oxyacetylene though :o). Heat works so much better than WD40 in my humble opinion. I've freed off 'impossibly seized' stuff using my trusty blowtorch.

Just as a side point, WD40 is not actually really that good at releasing seriously seized stuff, the best thing for that is proper penetrating fluid, works much better I've found.

HTH :)

Offline 'Mendip Wurzel'

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #20 on: 29, November, 2012, 09:02:49 PM »
If really stiff I have ended up cutting a slot in the top and welding in a piece of metal as a tee bar.   

Offline bluehornetrider

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #21 on: 30, November, 2012, 04:22:48 PM »
Your water pump looks just like mine did when I took it apart, the 3mm layer or orange flaky crap was quite impressive, I'm pretty sure it's what took mine off the road about 30 years ago! ???

If you get some penetrating spray from a car parts centre it freezes the rust and makes it expand popping the seized parts apart, sometimes takes a few goes though.  The heat works by expanding the metal parts the cooling to loosen the parts but can be detrimental to the parts being removed.

When I get around to putting mine back together I'll be using waterless coolant after a flush through with evans flush.  Give the old girl a chance at keeping cool.  If my block is this bad I hope the rad is easier to clean out.

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #22 on: 10, December, 2012, 04:44:39 PM »
This weekend I finally managed to get the cylinder head off the engine.  I have stripped down the head and started cleaning the valves in preparation for lapping.  The deposits on the exhaust valves certainly took some shifting!  I noticed a few of the valves have rough surfaces on the sealing faces which probably (hopefully) explains the lack of compression.  This is only on a few of the valves and could be due to the fact they were in the open position for years while the car was laid up. 

Once the head work is completed I'll focus on the bottom end.
« Last Edit: 19, December, 2012, 11:01:58 AM by robp »

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #23 on: 19, December, 2012, 11:01:23 AM »
Finished main work on the cylinder head.  Blimey, those valves took some lapping.  All back together now.  I left it on the bench upside down and filled the combustion chambers with white spirit.  I was fairly happy when I came back the next morning to find 3 of the 4 still full.  One of the inlet valves had leaked.  Took it apart and gave it a little more lapping.  All back together, re-tested and bingo!  Just need to paint the head now and I can put it over in the increasingly large pile of parts that are cleaned and refurbed. 8)

Before:


After:


Next job is to clean up the bottom end.  Piston crowns need carbon deposits cleaning off.  I don't want to get any crap down the sides of the pistons or into the oil galleries.  Advice anyone?  Grease around pistons?


Offline Daley Down Under

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #24 on: 19, December, 2012, 11:18:54 AM »
Finished main work on the cylinder head.  Blimey, those valves took some lapping.  All back together now.  I left it on the bench upside down and filled the combustion chambers with white spirit.  I was fairly happy when I came back the next morning to find 3 of the 4 still full.  One of the inlet valves had leaked.  Took it apart and gave it a little more lapping.  All back together, re-tested and bingo!  Just need to paint the head now and I can put it over in the increasingly large pile of parts that are cleaned and refurbed. 8)

Before:


After:


Next job is to clean up the bottom end.  Piston crowns need carbon deposits cleaning off.  I don't want to get any crap down the sides of the pistons or into the oil galleries.  Advice anyone?  Grease around pistons?

Rob,

Good job - busy busy

Adrian

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #25 on: 19, December, 2012, 04:49:47 PM »
Rob,

Good job - busy busy

Adrian

I may have to down tools on the Spit for a while soon.  The Westfield needs it's winter overhaul.  Nothing major.  Fluid changes and a thorough check over.  Particularly want to focus on the rear end.  Rear suspension wishbones and chassis.  I have the 2004 chassis so good to check all the welds especially around the diff.  Clean everything up and get POR 15 on any areas that the power coating is lifting off.  Fortunately, my inoculation for upgradeitis still seems to be working.  Just a set of new rear dampers and that'll be it.  I like the reliability of the current car spec.  Once the work is done, it's MOT time and then wait for 2013 trackdays to start!

Offline Lucky Ed

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #26 on: 19, December, 2012, 06:15:12 PM »
Progress is looking good on the Spit - I'm looking forward to your ' Ed China moment' in the spring!

I've been busy with the Mac1, I've rose jointed the rear lower wishbones to get rid of the nasty toe out I had, and replaced 12mm bolts in the rear suspension bushes with half inch UNF's to get rid of any slop I had. It involved quite a bit of drilling but now it's all as tight as a duck's arse. Also have finished putting on the Wilwood upgrade today, looks as sexy as..... , but am now waiting for some 5mm wheel spacers to push my 13" wheels away from the calipers as they just fowl. Soon be ready for a test run before the MOT and a visit to Track Developments to get it all set up ready for next year 8)

Offline fullpint

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #27 on: 19, December, 2012, 06:53:08 PM »
Nothng like having a good clean head.. Cracking job mate..

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #28 on: 31, December, 2012, 04:37:10 PM »
Just cleaning up the radiator.  The old paint on the top had bubbled up in places and crumbling.  I've cleaned most of it off.  Looks like brass or something underneath.  What do I need to do to paint it?  What sort of paint should I use?



Offline fullpint

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #29 on: 31, December, 2012, 06:26:46 PM »
Bit of engine paint  would be fine of good old hammerite  ;D

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #30 on: 05, January, 2013, 10:46:04 PM »
Bit of engine paint  would be fine of good old hammerite  ;D

Thanks for the advice. Hammerite smooth on and looking good.

I've been under the back of the Westfield this afternoon.  There are a couple of small areas where the power coating had lifted off the chassis.  I've rubbed them down and got some POR-15 on.  Great stuff but you have to be careful.  Sticks to everything like the proverbial s**t to a blanket.  Must have dripped some on the floor and then lay in it whilst moving around underneath the car.  I now have a 1" diameter patch of black POR-15 dried to the back of my head.  What a t*t!   ??? ;D

Offline fullpint

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #31 on: 06, January, 2013, 07:30:52 AM »
 :D :D :D You best not go paint balling then with that 1 inch target dot on the back of your head  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hammerite is stuff stuff..

Offline Moleman

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #32 on: 06, January, 2013, 04:36:40 PM »
Good job you ain't got long hair then Rob.  ;D

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #33 on: 06, January, 2013, 06:33:30 PM »
Good job you ain't got long hair then Rob.  ;D

Would probably be better if I had some hair.  Black paint patch certainly stands out on a bald head!  ;D

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #34 on: 08, January, 2013, 05:22:30 PM »
I have spent a few hours in the garage today.  Two cars in pieces at the moment.  Loads to do. ???



About halfway there on the Westfield.  Got to have this car ready.  Backend is finished.  Diff oil topped up and chassis and suspension checked over.  I'm currently halfway through an oil and filter change.  Dead easy on most motors but a little more fun on the Westfield with its dry sump.  Have to drain the sump as usual (not a lot in there) but also have to drain the oil tank.  There is no drain plug so I disconnect the lower fitting and then take the top half off the tank and clean out what is left.  Flushed out breather tank.  Remote filter is well hidden.  Once the oil is done I want to make some changes to the Tech-Edge system and recalibrate the lambda sensor.  Next will be MOT.

I've nearly finished the first stage of work on the Spitfire.  Basically, I'm not planning on taking anything else off in the engine bay.  Nearly everything is ready for re-assembly.  It will be great to get everything back together again and cross fingers the engine will fire up.  There are a few new parts I need; fuel pump, carb heat shield, starter motor, various pipes and fittings.  Also, how do I dispose of the old fuel in the car?  There are a few gallons.

Once I have the engine running well I want to sort out the rear brakes and then it'll be time to start on the bodywork.

Offline 'The Gaffer'

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #35 on: 08, January, 2013, 09:45:43 PM »
Also, how do I dispose of the old fuel in the car?  There are a few gallons.

You are quite a resourceful guy Rob.. how about making one of these to get rid of your old fuel :D


Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #36 on: 28, January, 2013, 03:45:26 PM »
Finally warm enough to get in the garage. 



Got the head on and torqued down.  Push rods and rocker shaft on too.  Refurbed engine is starting to make the scuttle look really tatty.  Well that is going to have to wait until next winter.  Just reminds me what state everything was in when I started. 



I've managed to fit the fixed jet conversion to one of the SU carbs.  Right fiddley job too.  I knew it was going to be fun when I read the instructions.  Statements like 'this is the most frustrating part of the job' and 'try to leave this to a person with a large amount of patience'.  It is definately one of those jobs that as soon as it starts getting annoying, just walk away and try another day.  Anyway, one carb is done (I think).  Not totally happy with the choke movement so I'll have another look at when I have some more time.

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #37 on: 28, January, 2013, 03:49:26 PM »
Also, how do I dispose of the old fuel in the car?  There are a few gallons.

You are quite a resourceful guy Rob.. how about making one of these to get rid of your old fuel :D


Love it, Phil!  That looks amazing.   :D

I've got hold of an electric fuel pump so I'll connect that up and pump all the old fuel into a jerry can.  Then decide how to get shot of it.

Offline bluehornetrider

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #38 on: 30, January, 2013, 04:37:22 PM »
I have a spare spitfire fuel pump if you still need one.  Been working on mine today, put the engine back together and the last cylinder head stud sheared off whilst torqueing it down, >:( have fitted the water pump and the distributor.  I have managed to loose the throttle connecting rod for the carbs whilst cleaning the twin su's.   :-[

Offline robp

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Re: Another Spitfire
« Reply #39 on: 06, February, 2013, 09:40:24 AM »
I have a spare spitfire fuel pump if you still need one.
Thanks very much.  I may take you up on that offer.  I haven't made much progress on the fuel side.  Old fuel line was old and perished.  Can't get new stuff on to fuel pump fittings.  Carb end is fine.  We'll get there.

I have managed to loose the throttle connecting rod for the carbs whilst cleaning the twin su's.   :-[
Got me worried here too.  All my throttle and choke linkages ended up all over the floor when I dropped the box they were in.  Hopefully haven't lost anything.  ::)