New, to me, Westie... Needs some love

[foggy@smr]

Hi all,

As promised in intro thread, here are a few pics I took earlier of the as picked up condition...






AVO shocks are a bonus


What I am a bit miffed about as just not the right way of doing it ...


All of the lighting connections have been cut and butt connected, so some work to do there, plus the indicators flash too quick as the side repeaters have been disconnected, so the wrong loading on the unit. Will reinstall side repeaters and put new front indicators on...

First job, get it up in the air, and get the panels off to see what shape the chassis is in. Initial once over looks good, with just some rusting of the rear area where all of the road c**p would sit.
Need to also sort gearbox, as a Quaife 4 speed fitted, but car came with a 5 speed rocket box, so as the crank seal is leaking, lets do it all at once...

Not sure if anyone recognizes the car, as originally a Swindon car, bought by a chap from Bristol a few years ago, and I got from North Devon.. Have a lot of history up until when sold to the guy from Bristol...

[Iancider]

Good luck with it Foggy.

The flash rate can be cured by fitting an electronic relay that isn't load sensitive and then you can mix bulbs and LEDs if you wish.
The connections look well made and the loom demonstrates that it is a Westie original with the right colour code.  You could redeem the situation by tying in neatly and coating then with petroleum jell to keep them watertight.  I have seen some real horrors with just domestic wiring.  If you need to decode any wire colours let me know - I think I could identify all of them if needed.

Regards
Ian

[Moleman]

Very nice mate. Looks like you have had your first passenger already, though he is looking a bit purple now after his experience. 

[fletch_306]

Ian are you taking about wiring on my Tiger that had a load of domestic wiring in when I purchased that!!

Looks like a good start and a nice car though.

Fletch

[foggy@smr]

Have made a start on it earlier...   

The car is up in the air and have removed the front end bodywork... Have someone coming by next weekend to look over each of the panels to see what can be salvaged / repaired and what to change ...

Next job, get the cage front off so the rest of the body tub can be removed.

The chassis is looking quite good at the mo, just the odd bit of rust on some of the welds on the front end, so a clean / treat / repaint of any areas that need sorting.

Spare 5 speed box is off to the doctors to be given a once over as better safe than sorry.

Took a few mins to decide where to jack it up, as all this is new to me as used to a great big sump guard under the frontend!!

[Moleman]

Check the welding around the brackets that are linked to the wishbone & ARB as a few of us has had failures there.   

[sanzomat]

Check the welding around the brackets that are linked to the wishbone & ARB as a few of us has had failures there.   

From the pix it looks like a good old fashioned normal ARB so hopefully much less stress on the wishbone bracket.

[foggy@smr]

Not too much progress done at the moment... Other things taken over, or is it trying to rack up the brownie points....

In with all of the paperwork that came with the car, was a couple of receipts with the original builder / owners number, so a quick call to him has explained a good few questions that we have had...

The car was built as a straight roadgoing Westie in 2005, and then the guy decided to go racing in the speed series. A new race chassis was purchased and everything swapped over and rebuilt to the championship rules. After a big accident in 2011, the car was rebuilt again using a brand new chassis and what bodywork could be salvaged. The car was then sold in 2012 when his new project was bought.

The car is currently fitted with a Tran-x 4 speed gearbox, which will be removed at some point not too long away, and be up for sale, along with the spare gearbox. Was told that it was a 5 speed only to find out that is infact a 4 speed Type E 'Rocket' according to the guy who has gone through it, telling me it is in excellent condition. Again, this will be posted in the for sale section within the next couple of weeks.

Started to order a few bits for the rebuild, like a replacement dash as no speedo fitted just a cycle computer, a speedo and new switches, as dont like the BL Mini switches.

So on the look out for a good 5 speed box, so a wanted post is going up me thinks.. Got to be someone with a spare hanging about rather than trolling eBay...

More to follow.....

[Moleman]

Good luck in finding what you need. 

[foggy@smr]

Had a bit of a lucky find earlier.....

Next doors Mondeo failed MOT on emisions.....

Made him an offer on it, as he is going to scrap it  !!!!! Cheap as chips.... 2.0 ltr blacktop, low mileage... Take engine out and stick it in the corner of the garage and get a friend to wave an oily rag over it and get a few more horses out of it... No issue for me, as Westie is on a Q plate...

Run the car with the silver top thats in it for a while, then upgrade at some point.

Also get a set of alloys for my Mrs's car... lol

[sanzomat]

Nice one. A true bit of recycling so very green (other than the emissions!!)

[Facial Hair Optional]

Colin wishes you luck finding what you need and look what happens!! He has the Midas touch! Hey Colin, I am doing the Euro lottery tomorrow, wish me luck please mate! 

[Moleman]

Colin wishes you luck finding what you need and look what happens!! He has the Midas touch! Hey Colin, I am doing the Euro lottery tomorrow, wish me luck please mate! 

I only wish that was true mate. 

Glad you managed to get one so soon foggy. 

[foggy@smr]

Well the Westie is now in pieces....

Stripped and ready for cleaning, cleaning and more cleaning...... 








Started the task of buying a few bits also with the longest order times..... 

Really happy with how its going at the mo and bits have already started to be sent to a friend who has a powder coating system, so should hopefully not be that long before putting stuff back onto it.....

[Moleman]

Wow that is stripped.    Good luck with it all. 

[Iancider]

That's what I call thorough!

Ian

[foggy@smr]

Thing is, want to use the car for speed events next year, so as we dont know the car, lets do a complete strip / rebuild.

Ordered a 5 speed HD type 9 from First Motion with uprated everything and lowered 1st, 2nd and 3rd to help with the hillclimb events. Also have ordered a complete new bolt set from Westfield, as some look as if they have been on and off the car a few times!

Trying to break apart the rear Sierra Cossie rear calipers at the mo... New seal kit ordered for when they go back togeather after being powder coated.. In red of course 
Front M16 calipers came apart easy, and the dust seals were crispy as anything...

[foggy@smr]

Have found that it was worth stripping everything back. A few of the welds were showing quite bad signs of rusting, so the whole frame has now had a clean / rust treatment where needed and a couple of coats of primer.





Chassis is now ready for painting in black. Also added a couple of strengthening bars to the rear of the tub where the rear seat mount / spacers were fitted, as the ally panel was bent.

Had a nice present delivered yesterday also...





They are very well done, so best get and put all the brakes back together.....

Have found someone local to repair the rear tub, and he has made a cracking job of it, so sent the side panels, the scuttle and the front lower panels to be repaired.

Also have managed to pick up a bargain... A V8 bonnet and nose cone very, very cheap, so that is there being sprayed in matt black.

One quick question ..... There are AVO's fitted and have found that the adjusters are seized on 2 of them. Any ideas on freeing them up 

[Camber Dave]

One quick question ..... There are AVO's fitted and have found that the adjusters are seized on 2 of them. Any ideas on freeing them up 

Soak them in WD 40 and work them and they may free off - but for your project I would eBay or bin them.

Get some Protech double adjusters. Damper adjustment is the final stage in perfecting the suspension to the venue. Separation of Bump and rebound  allows you to tune the wheel movement to keep the chassis stable and deliver traction on bumpy or smooth surfaces.

Come and drive my MX 5 and play with the settings to see how it works.

[foggy@smr]

Had them soaking in some penetrating oil supplied by last years rally sponsors (Morris) and they are free ..  Happy days......

Get they sprayed up in a nice new coat of black now... And some new AVO stickers

[Brandy Barrel]

Envious of that full cage, looking out for a secondhand as new is solo expensive.
You wouldn't like to copy yours would you?

[Brandy Barrel]

Can you add strength to the chassis? Gussets in certain areas, especially suspension area.

[Iancider]

Had similar problems with AVO's - WD40 alone didn't do it but a sharp tap on the top with a resin hammer released the threads instantly.  Smear them with grease when you put them back.

Regards
Ian

[foggy@smr]

Envious of that full cage, looking out for a secondhand as new is solo expensive.
You wouldn't like to copy yours would you?

Can you add strength to the chassis? Gussets in certain areas, especially suspension area.

The cage is under a fair bit of debate at the moment ....

The MSA have bought out a new ruling on ROPS (Roll Over Protection) for next year, and no one can confirm that the cage, fitted by Westfield, is OK for competition next year. It should be all OK. The Westfield 'RAC' bar cannot be used because of the rose joints on the rear stay. Its only the rear that is needed, and the front is just classed as additional bracing I believe for the under 2000cc kitcar classes.
If you wanted to have a look at the cage and take measurements, then sure we could arrange something.

The chassis is a race one supplied by Westfield, and so has the additional bracing fitted under the scuttle and at the front, plus is apparently made from thinner walled steel.. 

Had similar problems with AVO's - WD40 alone didn't do it but a sharp tap on the top with a resin hammer released the threads instantly.  Smear them with grease when you put them back.

Regards
Ian

Was happy when had a call yesterday at work to say that they had freed up.... They are all stripped of the paint at the mo, so after getting them sprayed up in black, was thinking of getting some shock socks to cover the bottom of the units, from the bottom of the spring seat to lower side of the adjuster above the fixing point to see if that would stop any damage to the body and keep the adjuster free..

Something like this... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SHOCK-COVER-PROTECTEUR-DAMORTISSEUR-POLARIS-RZR-NOIR-SHOCK-COVER-SET-DE-4-/231681480484  Have friends in Canada... 

[Brandy Barrel]

Ohh dear mines the rose jointed version, so I gotta bin that have I? It has to be fully welded now I guess!
Would love to measure the full cage if possible.
Especially as it's just classed as additional and doesn't matter who makes it.

[Brandy Barrel]

Probably a fair amount of weight to trawl around in a full cage.
When talking power to weight its probably not a good thing.

[foggy@smr]

Ohh dear mines the rose jointed version, so I gotta bin that have I? It has to be fully welded now I guess!
Would love to measure the full cage if possible.
Especially as it's just classed as additional and doesn't matter who makes it.

Brandy Barrel. Will get in touch and sort something.. I take it you are only in Chepstow according to your profile, so not far as in Coleford...
Have a read through this....
http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic/115180-new-msa-rops-regulations/

Probably a fair amount of weight to trawl around in a full cage.
When talking power to weight its probably not a good thing.

As we are going to use the car for Speed series events, safety first, so full cage is a must....

[foggy@smr]

Had a good few afternoons on the car and it is looking a darn sight better ... 



Also all of the seal kits turned up, so started rebuilding the brakes....







Backs are tomorrows job.... 

[sanzomat]

Nice!

[Moleman]

At this rate your winter project will be done before winter kicks in. 

[foggy@smr]

Nice!

Thanks... What was a tidy up is now a full rebuild... lol

At this rate your winter project will be done before winter kicks in. 

Moleman, there are a few big bits that we are waiting to finalize... The big one is the cage... Still waiting for the Welsh Speed Championship eligibility scrutineer to call by and give his take on the cage... Spoke to Plays Kool on monday, and they were very helpful. There take on the cages are that as this was an original MSA approved race series car, the cage should be all ok for us to use, but no one can confirm this... May end up cutting the main hoop off and replacing just the hoop to the correct size and then refitting the original front back too it.. Have a shed load of repainting to do then 

Off to the Westfield openday end of the month, and so am hoping to ask questions direct to them...

[foggy@smr]

Few more bits ticked off the list of too doo's.....









Having a major issue with the cage at the mo.....

MSA are saying that the fully welded cage that is fitted to the car (38mm) is too small and has to be hacked off... A new MSA approved rear bar has to be fitted, but can use the front section...
Caged who supplied the original for the race series never homologated the cage, and so cant use it.... They have offered to supply a new one... So we have to cut off a fully welded cage, and refit a bolt in one in its place ...
The MSA rule book says NO ROSE JOINTS as this creates a weak spot in the transfer of stresses...
The MSA approved roll cage from Caged is exactly the same size tube as ours (38mm), and has ROSE JOINTS to fix it at the rear !!! How the chuff does that work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the MSA also have said, is that I can remove the rear bars and manufacture a hoop myself from the correct sized tube and then compete .... Madness, complete madness.... 

[Iancider]

My Sympathy,

I reckon they did their training in Brussels!

[Iancider]

Foggy - I just looked up the regs and have copied the link below.  I did notice the tube has to be 3mm thick - that might be the issue.

https://www.msauk.org/assets/153191commonregulationsforcompetitorssafetyk.pdf

[Daley Down Under]

MSA have always been a bunch of t***ts - ever since I first got involved with them in the early 80s road rallying as a competitior and organiser.  Anyone would think they anti- motorsport most of the time 

[Daley Down Under]

Great looking calipers by the way 

Cheers Adrian

[foggy@smr]

My Sympathy,

I reckon they did their training in Brussels!

Foggy - I just looked up the regs and have copied the link below.  I did notice the tube has to be 3mm thick - that might be the issue.

https://www.msauk.org/assets/153191commonregulationsforcompetitorssafetyk.pdf

Iancider .. The main hoop and rear stays are 38mm x 4mm CDS tube, and so mechanically are better than needed, but because the cage was never homologated, cannot be used...

My No1 gripe is the fact that the rear stays have to be removed (They run from the top of the hoop down to the rear chassis member) and the 1" box that would normally run from the top of the rear shock mount to the rear bar has to be re-installed. The 'new MSA approved hoop' rear stays then connect to the 1" box section using a small 'U' bracket... I just dont understand how that is classed at being safer than what is currently fitted..



You can see the 1" box from the top of the rear strut top filleted into the rear stay above... This has to be the otherway around to comply with MSA..... But was also told that I can 'make my own' rear roll bar section out of the correct size tubing.. Personally, think the MSA have lost the plot on this one... Yes, there does have to be some sort of common laid down rules on this, but surely the cars could be presented to a MSA Scrutineer and given an OK or get it sorted peice of paper before you can compete on any MSA sactioned event... Looks like all of the championships was looking at may be out next year, as its £680 + Vat for an approved but in my eyes, not as strong cage...

Spoke to the sponsors with a proposal earlier, and have been told go for it... Javelin Sprintdays Championship... http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=296&Itemid=901

Car is 100% ready to go for this, so this is where we are now heading.... 

MSA have always been a bunch of t***ts - ever since I first got involved with them in the early 80s road rallying as a competitior and organiser.  Anyone would think they anti- motorsport most of the time 

I feel that they are going towards making it as difficult as possible for anyone to get involved at grass routes motorsport level.. We dont all have 1000's of £'s to get involved...

Great looking calipers by the way 

Cheers Adrian

Cheers Adrian.. Well happy with everything that the Powder Coaters has done for us... Cant wait to start throwing stuff back on the chassis.. 

[foggy@smr]

Been a while, but things have started to jump back onto the chassis....

After a trip to Westfield the other week to the open day, we picked up suspension bolt set, various cables and filters and so have made a start on the rebuild.

Have ordered the seats, JK Composites with red piping on the seat pads. Adjustable base on drives and fixed passengers. Depending on the seat top heights depends on what is happening with the cage... Cant afford to wait another 4 weeks to start rebuild, so decided to make a start and then when the seats are trial fitted make the cage call from there. Our cage builder has been informed and is waiting to pop by and see what he can make if needed..

The rear axle is now in but its offset - propshaft flange in the transmission tunnel .. rechecked everything and its correct  Then realized after that the transmission tunnel is offset, as we had just spoke to JK about widths  Wider drivers against passengers sides...

Should start getting the front back togeather tomorrow and also the gearbox is due also, so may even make a start on getting that back in .. Maybe .. lol

A few pics to follow at some point..

[foggy@smr]

Put passengers side together as a start.. Have found a few bits still need making like a few spacers, as there were washers coming out of my ears removed...



Spacer needed for the strut to axle mount



Front looking quite nice...

[Gary RH7]

Ah! The joy of suspension. Looking good.