My Robin Hood Heating Problems

[Gary RH7]

Thought I would start a new thread on this. Seems the best thing to do.

Firstly thanks to FHO, Lucky Ed and Benchmark 51 for looking at the Hood today.

When I built the Hood I put the radiator in front of the engine the same distance it was in the Dolomite donor car. The guys noticed today that the radiator is no where near the nose cone, far too high so the air was not being directed towards the radiator, therefore not through it.

I was bet 50 quid that putting a panel under the nose cone towards the radiator would improve the cooling but after sitting down and looking at the situation I decided to go the whole hog and move the radiator saving one of us 50 quid.

I have moved the radiator further forward and mounted it on a bar where the nose cone is attached.



The radiator was mounted just in front of the yellow fan.

Now the distance between the hose and the radiator has to be sorted.

Two lengths of 30mm and one 20mm SS pipe will sort this out.

Now the radiator fits snugly inside the nose cone.

[Iancider]

That is the value of direct observation.  Also don't forget to put a couple of deflector panels either side to prevent bypassing air.

Nice hooters by the way!

[Facial Hair Optional]

Bloody hell Gary, you don't mess about do you!! You were only hurtling down messy lanes with us in that a few hours ago!!! And as for the £50, what £50, got any witnesses?? ha ha ha!!!

Can't wait to see if it works    It certainly will have air going through it now mate!!!! 

I know it goes without saying but I'll say it anyway, make sure it is REALLY solidly mounted Gary, the force of air on that rad at speed will be pretty enormous, you don't want it to get forced backwards and pull off a pipe or something like that!

[Lucky Ed]

That looks loads better Gary, you should get some decent airflow through the rad now. You might still want to block off the sides if the problem persists, it made a big difference to mine.

Fingers crossed FHO won't be getting £50

Soz, I was a bit slow with my reply but I'm happy to be a witness!

[Facial Hair Optional]

That looks loads better Gary, you should get some decent airflow through the rad now. You might still want to block off the sides if the problem persists, it made a big difference to mine.

Fingers crossed FHO won't be getting £50

Soz, I was a bit slow with my reply but I'm happy to be a witness!

Grass!!!

I was more worried I'd lose my £50 - phew!!

[Gary RH7]

That is the value of direct observation.

That's exactly what we said when we were looking at it Ian. You can go back and forth on the forum but a good eyeball makes all the difference.

Just measuring up for the extension pipes I have just realised that because the radiator has moved about 400mm further forward will also increase the water capacity.

I think with this modification it should improve but if there is still a little overheating the waterless coolant will defiantly put it to bed.

[damouk]

Looks like a good job, ducting the air so it can only go through the rad will also make a massive difference. If your fix works (fingers crossed) then the other thing to consider is to remove the directly connected fan, you could free up 10+ horses

[Gary RH7]

If your fix works (fingers crossed) then the other thing to consider is to remove the directly connected fan, you could free up 10+ horses

What,,, that will take me over 100BHP. Could I cope I was able to keep up with FHO and Lucky Ed today so its not that bad

[Facial Hair Optional]

I think Gary plans to remove that old fan and put the electric one on the other side of the rad to which it was on so it sucks through and is not blocking air flow, that'll aid cooling even more.

I don't think you will have any cooling problems after that Gary tbh mate. Super cool!!! 

[damouk]

If your fix works (fingers crossed) then the other thing to consider is to remove the directly connected fan, you could free up 10+ horses

What,,, that will take me over 100BHP. Could I cope I was able to keep up with FHO and Lucky Ed today so its not that bad

I'm guessing you will notice the difference then! :-)

[Facial Hair Optional]

Considering the power Gary your car is pretty quick mate. The one thing I have realised when going out with other kit cars is just how much EXTRA power you need to make any real difference in real life road driving. On a track it's a bit different but on the road you need a good 100 extra bhp to demolish another car I reckon!!

You were tailing me with your 95bhp, I was tailing Ed with my 150bhp and Ed has 200+bhp and none of us was leaving anyone for dead were we! Maybe it is road limitations, or nerve!!!!

I laugh these days when I hear guys talking about how they have got another 10 bhp out of their Corsa or Focus and how they will be able to leave everyone in their dust on the road!! Gonna be disappointed lads!!!!!!!!! 

[Lucky Ed]

You were tailing me with your 95bhp, I was tailing Ed with my 150bhp and Ed has 200+bhp and none of us was leaving anyone for dead were we! Maybe it is road limitations, or nerve!!!!

I'll try a bit harder next time then    ... but seriously I was running out road and nerve in the greasy conditions, and my car is a nightmare on uneven surfaces with the large amount of camber it's running

[Gary RH7]

To be honest guys the car was a pig before I got Camber Dave to go through sorting it out and also changing the 24 year old tyres made a difference as well. The only time I felt left behind was when we turned a corner and I had to make a double hand shuffle to get round slowing me down. A high ratio rack would sort that out but £180.00 for a re-con? Not sure.

I don't think the car would be much good on a track but I might give it a go one day just for the hell of it.

[Facial Hair Optional]

I doubt anyone could go much quicker in those conditions Ed. I was very on edge at times, it felt very slippery indeed!!!

On a good dry road I would have been even further behind you than I was I know that much.

[Facial Hair Optional]

To be honest guys the car was a pig before I got Camber Dave to go through sorting it out and also changing the 24 year old tyres made a difference as well. The only time I felt left behind was when we turned a corner and I had to make a double hand shuffle to get round slowing me down. A high ratio rack would sort that out but £180.00 for a re-con? Not sure.

I don't think the car would be much good on a track but I might give it a go one day just for the hell of it.

I used to think that about the Tiger Gary, kinda that it wouldn't be that good, but tbh if I could get it through the noise test I would do it in a heartbeat!!!

Take the Hood round Combe mate, you will absolutely LOVE IT!!!!! (PS. sort the coolng out 1st though  )

[Iancider]

Agreed - every car has to do one track day at least!

[Hairy Santa]

is the overheating cured ?

when does it overheat ?

did you clear the both heater pipes so the water runs freely ?

is the electric fan full size for the rad ?

[Gary RH7]

is the overheating cured ?

when does it overheat ?

did you clear the both heater pipes so the water runs freely ?

is the electric fan full size for the rad ?

I still have it all in bits waiting for parts.
It  overheats on the motorway at this time of year doing 70 to 80 MPH and of course on a hot day.
The modification of moving the rad into the nose cone requires new water pipes but the old ones were free anyway.
I have an electric fan which is the largest I could find to cover the rad. I am doing away with the engine fan and waiting for a new smaller fan belt for just the pulley and alternator.

I am still in two minds whether to get an oil cooler. Rimmer Bros do a kit for £160.00. Might be worth fitting while it is all in bits.
When these old Triumphs were built over 40 years ago I don't suppose they sat on motorways doing 70 MPH for a long time. Makes you wonder why oil cooler kits are being made and sold for the old Dolomites now.

So, it is sill work in progress and I suppose with this weather its a good time to do it.

['The Gaffer']

This has probably been covered elsewhere? but have you considered the water pump itself? Is it clean and pumping well? Is the thermostat working correctly? Maybe try a high capacity electric water pump?

[Gary RH7]

This has probably been covered elsewhere? but have you considered the water pump itself? Is it clean and pumping well? Is the thermostat working correctly? Maybe try a high capacity electric water pump?

I took the thermostat out some time ago.
I have thought of the water pump. When I extended the internal heater bypass hose I had the car ticking over while it was warming up. The bypass hose was not getting hot when the others were so I gave it a little rev up and the hose got hot so I am assuming the pump is doing its part. Also there is a filler cap above the thermostat housing and with that off you can see the water getting agitated when revving it up.
I have thought of an electric pump and the Dolomite club do a mod replacing the mechanical pump with a device which diverts the water correctly.

['Mendip Wurzel']

I am surprised you have overheating problems looking at the size of your radiator, which looks more than adequate and the electric fan fitted should have a big effect. Sounds like circulation could be a problem.

You can often purchase cheap second hand oil coolers on ebay, as opposed to purchasing a new unit. I have a largish oil cooler on my kit car (from ebay) that I pump water through to aid cooling. I reckon this has more effect on cooling than pumping oil through it.... I may be wrong.

I have additional electric fans just blowing onto the engine..... and also I have fans on the outside of the radiator.... got 5 fans in total, so as you probably guessed I have had my fair share of overheating problems. The fans all come on at different temperatures, when they are all on I become a hovercraft!

Kevin

[Iancider]

when they are all on I become a hovercraft!

Chitty, Chitty, Bang Bang!

[Gary RH7]

As I posted on Paintman's "Oil Cooler for the Hood" thread that I fitted an oil cooler with fan thought I would continue here as I still have a problem with heating.

I have spent quite some time looking on the Net after talking to Camber Dave. He mentioned timing could not be advanced enough.

The timing for the Triumph 1850 is 11 degrees BTDS which is where I have set it. BUT as I am using unleaded the Dolomite club say set it to 16 degrees BTDS because unleaded burns slower. If it pinks try 15 degrees.

So that's the next exercise after the timing light arrives from E-bay. Thought I might buy one rather than borrow as it will always come in handy.

[benchmark51]

I think that at the speeds you are using on the road, the oil will not be getting that hot. If it is controlled by a 'stat , then not much oil is being let through to the cooler. So I don't think you will see much difference with the cooler. What ignition system are you using?

[Gary RH7]

What ignition system are you using?

Hi Dave,
It is a bog standard Lucas dizzy. No electronic...yet!

[benchmark51]

Ok, does it have a vac' unit on it and does it work? Also underneath the base plate there are centrifugal bob weights and springs that can sieze up and or break. These can put your ignition timing way out at driving speeds. Of course the fix is to go electronic but it would be good to find out if the dizzy has faults.

[Gary RH7]

Just fitted a recon dizzy last year.  I have done a SUCK test on the vac advance and the plate does turn a bit which is what I expected.
If I remember correctly the overheating was there before I swapped the dizzy so I think the mechanics will be OK.

When I get the timing light I will check to see if the timing advances to about 30 degrees when I rev it up.

I am not to clued up on electronic ignition. The one I fitted to my Ford Crappy years ago just boosted the spark. Wore the plugs out but not the points.
Anybody recommend electronic type/make. I assume the weights and vac advance will still need to be working on the mechanical side.

[benchmark51]

I doubt it's the dizzy then. Do you see any evidence of a water leak? On your expansion tank you have an overflow, try routing the pipe into a open bottle to see if any water is let out during a run. There was a problem with the reach of the pressure cap not being sufficient and releasing too early. This would gradually dump water out and take in air, which would progressivly get worse until overheat happens. Even a brand new cap could do this.

[Gary RH7]

I doubt it's the dizzy then. Do you see any evidence of a water leak? On your expansion tank you have an overflow, try routing the pipe into a open bottle to see if any water is let out during a run. There was a problem with the reach of the pressure cap not being sufficient and releasing too early. This would gradually dump water out and take in air, which would progressivly get worse until overheat happens. Even a brand new cap could do this.

Have a look at the filling point and expansion tank Dave. I am not getting any overflow from the tank at the moment but I have in the past during hot weather. I HAVE fitted a new cap, it does feel tight and I can see the indentation on the seal where it sits on the tank.
When I fill up with water I squeeze the rad top hose to make sure the water goes down the copper pipe to the expansion tank to make sure there is no air trapped anywhere.




Just thought of something after reading your input. When I fill, I put the water in the filling point where the stat would sit. I do not fill the expansion tank be full to the brim so there is air in it. This air is just being compressed and the pressure is not building up. I think this would cause a problem?

[benchmark51]

On your expansion tank, the pipe connected to the engine allows for water transfer to and from the engine. So I assume there is an internal pipe inside the tank that is always immersed in water?



On the ford expansion tank the pipe allowing water transfer is always covered in water, so no internal pipe. The other pipe connection on the ford tank connects near the thermostat housing and allows air bubbles to escape to the tank




I suspect that expansioned water being transferred to the tank is unable to get back to the engine, but air is, thus causing an air bubble which gets progressively bigger. What do you think?

[Gary RH7]

The internal pipe is always immersed in water so air would not get back to the engine, only water.

[Iancider]

Gary,

You mentioned about a retrofit electronic ignition.  This one below replaced the rotor and contact breaker but uses the existing coil - it will give you a fatter spark, better combustion and more accurate timing plus more reliability.  It retains the dizzy mechanism for advance.
http://www.accuspark.co.uk/accuspark.html
Here's another
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lucas-25D-25D4-POWERSPARK-electronic-ignition-kit-/110581394489?hash=item19bf2a2c39:g:hPsAAOSwrmdTrDZy
And Lumention probably the best known brand
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lumenition-Fitting-Kits-FK116-Lucas-22-25D-series-/321453077282?hash=item4ad818b322:g:SrIAAOSwirZTt9RU

Regards
Ian

[Gary RH7]

Thanks Ian,
Got the Accuspark on order with a sports coil. Just under £50.00

Cheers,
Gary

[Facial Hair Optional]

There's is a lot to catch up on in this thread Gary so help me out here mate, did moving the radiator not do the trick?

[Gary RH7]

There's is a lot to catch up on in this thread Gary so help me out here mate, did moving the radiator not do the trick?

Sorry to say it didn't. I even put an oil cooler in at the same time but no difference so that's why I am thinking of timing.
I have also bought some water additive which is supposed to lower the temp by 30 degrees F. Don't know if it will work.

Last resort is waterless coolant but with an ally head I am worried it will get too hot and warp.

[paintman]

Just thought Gary.....you using standard plugs?

If it's modded at all it might well run cooler with colder plugs fitted.....my Hood runs well on 2 grades cooler than
original!

[Gary RH7]

Just thought Gary.....you using standard plugs?

If it's modded at all it might well run cooler with colder plugs fitted.....my Hood runs well on 2 grades cooler than
original!

Never heard of them. Could you tell me a bit more about them. I will also check the net.

Thanks
Gary

[Facial Hair Optional]

There's is a lot to catch up on in this thread Gary so help me out here mate, did moving the radiator not do the trick?

Sorry to say it didn't. I even put an oil cooler in at the same time but no difference so that's why I am thinking of timing.
I have also bought some water additive which is supposed to lower the temp by 30 degrees F. Don't know if it will work.

Last resort is waterless coolant but with an ally head I am worried it will get too hot and warp.

I am truly shocked at that! I would have bet good money that moving the rad would have sorted it. Baffling!!

I hope you get to the bottom of the problem soon mate.

[benchmark51]

I think yours uses Champion N12yc which is hot. Try N6yc which are cooler. We used to change plugs  on lotuses, as people that didn't 'boot the car now and then ended up fouling the plugs.

[Gary RH7]

I was looking under the car at the weekend as the exhaust was blowing a bit from the manifold to the downpipe and the MOT is coming up soon. I bought an exhaust manifold months ago as I saw a new one cheep so I thought I would replace that at the same time. One bolt head turned slightly but the thread didn't so I thought leave that for another day and concentrate in the little leak.

Looking under the engine at the lower manifold bolts I saw a problem


The head is the grey part and the block is black if that helps.

I have no idea how long it has been like that. I am getting no water in the oil or oil in the water and I am not loosing much water that I know of. Anyway it does not look as if it is poring out anyway.
I wire brushed it all up and gave it a rub down with an oily rag so I can see if there is still a problem. I have also re-torqued the head down.

Dave Gallop has suggested this http://www.steelseal.co.uk/ or http://www.kseal.com/uk/head-gasket-repair/ but admits he is not an engine man and suggested the forum.

So, any head experts out there? I know the best solution is do the gasket ASAP (big job for me so might have to pay someone ) but with such little water leaking would this cause overheating?
Any suggestions on a way forward?

Thoughts please