How to keep warm in your car this winter

[Gary RH7]

How to keep warm in your car this winter

[Facial Hair Optional]

For a minute there I was hoping for something serious!! 

I noticed today how the cars have suddenly got all damp with condensation etc. I'm a bit worried about mine over the Winter tbh. Am thinking of heating my garage with a convection heater (I think that's what they are called) and using an oscillating tower fan to distribute the warmth around a bit. No idea what my leccy bill would be like though!

Have also considered a Carcoon   https://www.carcoon.com/carcoon-evo-indoor

The previous owner used one and rated it highly. Not sure it would fit in my tiny garage though. Better measure up

Anyone got any good input for taking care of kits over the Winter period pls?

[Gary RH7]

OK... My 20 year old kit has not suffered being in a garage. What it has suffered from is not being used. Things like brake callipers start so seize so I suggest giving it a run as often as you can and exercise everything.
All I do is throw a huge dust sheet over it. My garage is dry anyway but if you have a damp one would you just pump damp air into the bubble?

[Vindicator]

I have a carcoon and I rate it. It has filters designed to absorb moisture and because it's constantly pumping, the air circulates and vents. The only hassle is getting the car in and out when you want to use it. Mine also has a built in battery conditioner to keep the battery charged. It also switches to take power from the car battery if there's a power cut. When measuring, remember the arc of an up-and-over door if you have one. If you haven't got a seperate access door, you won't be able to get back in the garage once inflated!

[Iancider]

Wise advice from GaryRHY.

And a good tip from Vindicator.  However I think it wise to make sure the Misses is cosseted a little more than the car to restore balance at this point.  So she will be requiring baths in exotic oils, a weekly makeover and you would have to compliment the weekly hair-do.  Balance would then be successfully restored.

Ian

[Facial Hair Optional]

OK... My 20 year old kit has not suffered being in a garage. What it has suffered from is not being used. Things like brake callipers start so seize so I suggest giving it a run as often as you can and exercise everything.
All I do is throw a huge dust sheet over it. My garage is dry anyway but if you have a damp one would you just pump damp air into the bubble?

I think it dries and conditions the air Gary and then recirculates it inside the bubble. One thing for sure it defo gets rid of the damp air and keeps the car damp and mildew free. For now I am gonna try the heater and fan system and see how it goes as my garage is a bit damp inside. Rain gets in under the door when it's windy I think.

[Facial Hair Optional]

I have a carcoon and I rate it. It has filters designed to absorb moisture and because it's constantly pumping, the air circulates and vents. The only hassle is getting the car in and out when you want to use it. Mine also has a built in battery conditioner to keep the battery charged. It also switches to take power from the car battery if there's a power cut. When measuring, remember the arc of an up-and-over door if you have one. If you haven't got a seperate access door, you won't be able to get back in the garage once inflated!

Once purchased it's gotta be cheaper to run than a heater and fan?! Anything I need access to can come out of the garage and into a shed so garage access shouldn't be an issue I hope.

If the Carcoon unzips at the front then wouldn't you be able to just drive the car in and out when you need to? I know you can get ones with a rigid frame inside but they look quite big. Back to the old 'better measure up' situation for me then!

Thanks for everyone's input and advice..... Ian - I don't have that worry atm mate, I'm happily unmarried ta!! 

[Vindicator]

Once purchased it's gotta be cheaper to run than a heater and fan?! Anything I need access to can come out of the garage and into a shed so garage access shouldn't be an issue I hope.

If the Carcoon unzips at the front then wouldn't you be able to just drive the car in and out when you need to? I know you can get ones with a rigid frame inside but they look quite big. Back to the old 'better measure up' situation for me then!

[quote/]

Mine is around 10 years old so the design my have changed, but with mine, you drive the car onto a ground sheet with a zip around the base. You then take the pvc top, lay it over the car and then zip it to the base.......and then inflate! You must keep the fans going (hence having the battery as back-up) otherwise it deflates. They're not cheap so agree you're probably best to try another way, particularly if space is tight. They do balloon out a bit! My dad always used to open the garage door slightly during the day to get some air circulating in his garage.......Ian

[Gary RH7]

I have a carcoon and I rate it. It has filters designed to absorb moisture and because it's constantly pumping, the air circulates and vents. The only hassle is getting the car in and out when you want to use it. Mine also has a built in battery conditioner to keep the battery charged. It also switches to take power from the car battery if there's a power cut. When measuring, remember the arc of an up-and-over door if you have one. If you haven't got a seperate access door, you won't be able to get back in the garage once inflated!

I like the battery idea but not convinced about absorbing moisture unless it has Silica gel but that needs drying out in an oven when it gets wet. I looked on the website and they say it has carbon filters, for some reason. Carbon will only absorb bad stuff hence the use in military gas masks etc.
If the unit had Silica gel drying beds using heatless reactivation driers and valves to dump moisture letting dry air at low dew point into the unit it would cost a considerable amount more. It will add at least 2K to the price.

Saying that, I suppose if it does move damp air into the unit and around the car, on a dry day it should move dry air round the car drying it off again.

[Facial Hair Optional]

Mine is around 10 years old so the design my have changed, but with mine, you drive the car onto a ground sheet with a zip around the base. You then take the pvc top, lay it over the car and then zip it to the base.......and then inflate! You must keep the fans going (hence having the battery as back-up) otherwise it deflates. They're not cheap so agree you're probably best to try another way, particularly if space is tight. They do balloon out a bit! My dad always used to open the garage door slightly during the day to get some air circulating in his garage.......Ian

I think the design has stayed about the same, to get one you can drive into without having to do the process you outlined, you have to buy the version with the rigid interior frame. They call it the Veloce version I believe?

https://www.carcoon.com/carcoon-indoor-veloce

As an experiment I have set up the heater and fan arrangement. Have checked my leccy meter and it is spinning like a whirling Dervish!!!!     

[Facial Hair Optional]

I have a carcoon and I rate it. It has filters designed to absorb moisture and because it's constantly pumping, the air circulates and vents. The only hassle is getting the car in and out when you want to use it. Mine also has a built in battery conditioner to keep the battery charged. It also switches to take power from the car battery if there's a power cut. When measuring, remember the arc of an up-and-over door if you have one. If you haven't got a seperate access door, you won't be able to get back in the garage once inflated!

I like the battery idea but not convinced about absorbing moisture unless it has Silica gel but that needs drying out in an oven when it gets wet. I looked on the website and they say it has carbon filters, for some reason. Carbon will only absorb bad stuff hence the use in military gas masks etc.
If the unit had Silica gel drying beds using heatless reactivation driers and valves to dump moisture letting dry air at low dew point into the unit it would cost a considerable amount more. It will add at least 2K to the price.

Saying that, I suppose if it does move damp air into the unit and around the car, on a dry day it should move dry air round the car drying it off again.

As far as I understand it Gary it dries out the air in the Carcoon and then just recirculates the SAME dry air, it doesnt have to keep drying out new air all the time. There are other ways to 'dehumidify' air, I have an air con unit that does exactly that and it doesnt use silica gel. As far as I know my air con unit lets moist air hit a cold surface and hence condensate and then is collected in a drip tray. Not sure if the Carcoon uses the same idea though. Havent read all of their website but it may say on there somewhere?

[benchmark51]

I gave thought to nasty build up of fumes, from a using gas cooker in the trannybus and decided to put a vent at floor level with an extractor fan. I have been looking at solar powered fans on ebay. Perhaps they could be used to ventilate a covered car?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=solar+powered+fan&_osacat=82099&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l2632.R2.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=solar+powered+fan&_sacat=41986

[Gary RH7]

I have a carcoon and I rate it. It has filters designed to absorb moisture and because it's constantly pumping, the air circulates and vents. The only hassle is getting the car in and out when you want to use it. Mine also has a built in battery conditioner to keep the battery charged. It also switches to take power from the car battery if there's a power cut. When measuring, remember the arc of an up-and-over door if you have one. If you haven't got a seperate access door, you won't be able to get back in the garage once inflated!

I like the battery idea but not convinced about absorbing moisture unless it has Silica gel but that needs drying out in an oven when it gets wet. I looked on the website and they say it has carbon filters, for some reason. Carbon will only absorb bad stuff hence the use in military gas masks etc.
If the unit had Silica gel drying beds using heatless reactivation driers and valves to dump moisture letting dry air at low dew point into the unit it would cost a considerable amount more. It will add at least 2K to the price.

Saying that, I suppose if it does move damp air into the unit and around the car, on a dry day it should move dry air round the car drying it off again.

As far as I understand it Gary it dries out the air in the Carcoon and then just recirculates the SAME dry air, it doesnt have to keep drying out new air all the time. There are other ways to 'dehumidify' air, I have an air con unit that does exactly that and it doesnt use silica gel. As far as I know my air con unit lets moist air hit a cold surface and hence condensate and then is collected in a drip tray. Not sure if the Carcoon uses the same idea though. Havent read all of their website but it may say on there somewhere?

This is how they do it. From their web site.
Q: Does the Carcoon constantly blow large volumes of air into the bubble?
A: The Carcoon has two modes of operation; the first is the initial drying mode, where maximum airflow across a warm vehicle removes all the moisture. This establishes a dry car in a dry environment. The essential drying mode is followed by the equally important storage mode: here, airflow from the ambient environment is effectively blocked by the super atmospheric, re-circulating airflow through the Activated Carbon filters. Such filters are fitted on the inside of the two air treatment units.






Not sure what " airflow from the ambient environment is effectively blocked by the super atmospheric" means 

[Facial Hair Optional]

It's a fancy way of saying that once the air in the Carcoon has been dried out Gary that no new damp dirty air is allowed in from the ouside (that's the 'ambient environment air is blocked from entering' bit) and the now dry clean air inside the Carcoon is just kept moving around (recirculating via the carbon filters) to keep the car nice and dry and snug!

[Gary RH7]

MMM, Have a look at this. Interesting reading.

http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/general-tech-help-7/anyone-used-carcoon-car-storage-bubble-53739/

['The Gaffer']

A guy on that Jag forum had a point,

"If a garage has 80% relative humidity (not rare at all) then the relative humidity will still be 80% inside the cocoon, blowers or no blowers. Humidity should be kept below 40% to minimize corrosion of ferrous steel"

Interesting storage solution no less.

[Facial Hair Optional]

It would be a good point if he were correct - but he is not! The CarCoon is in effect a closed environment and as such if you lower the humidity in a closed environment it will not have the same humidity (you can substitute temperature, salt content or whatever you like here) as the outer (or 'ambient') environment. If what he is saying were true then air conditioners in our cars or houses or offices and dehumidifiers simply would not work and hence would not exist!

He has misconstrued how the CarCoon works I suspect. The fact that these people can't even get the name correct says a lot I think!!

[Iancider]

Cor,

I felt tired after reading that lot.  I saw no evidence that the Carcoon actually lowers the humidity but it would be no worse than the general environment - generally circa 50% humidity in the UK.  If you want to dry it you will need a dehumidifier and they are about £150-350.  The fan is just an inflator just to keep the cover out of contact and puniest thing would do that - a hair-drier on cold for instance.  So the only other part is the zip-up and reasonably airtight bag.

So who want to be the first to knock-out an improvement for £300?

Ian

[Facial Hair Optional]

Don't forget the carbon filter thingies Ian!! 

One that defo lowers the humidity and gently heats the air to keep our little treasures warm at night would be nice. Could we build a cheapo prototype do you reckon Ian?

[sanzomat]

I am one of the sceptics on this too. I don't see how carbon filters can remove moisture. Smells maybe or even toxins but not moisture. a/c does remove moisture by trapping it in the evaporater.

I suppose it is possible that the temperature inside the carcoon could be a bit warmer so the RH could be lower as the air would have the same absolute moisture content but at a higher temperature the relative humidity is lower.

Not much ferrous metal on my car and what there is is well painted or powder coated so I'll take my chances inside the garage!

[Facial Hair Optional]

It's not the ferrous metal I would worry about Dave, have you seen what happens to a car's interior, carpets, dash etc when mildew gets a hold?!! Eek! It's nasty.

Tbh I think that is more the point of the Carcoon than preventing rust, it keeps air moving which helps prevent mildew and damp getting a hold on things. Any car (or pretty much anything else for that matter)  left long enough in a damp atmosphere doesnt stand a chance. I cleared a garage in the last two weeks, most of what was in it had to be taken to the tip - ruined.

It's no coincidence that people who own valuable/classic cars DON'T keep them in normal garages!

What I can tell you is that the previous owner of my car had a Carcoon and spoke very highly of it indeed. We can all be sceptical and often ignore what is right in front of our faces, the fact that people who use them rate them very highly. Or maybe they are all being paid to say that? 

One thing is for sure, my Tiger had damp in the dash dials and mild signs of mildew last winter, I am 100% certain it would not have had either if it had been kept inside a more protected environment. Whether that be a Carcoon or some other idea isn't really relevant but a damp garage is not the best of places for an open top kit car for sure! Anything that keeps the garage or the car drier has to be a good thing.

[Bulldog Bri]

Our 2 Bulldogs are used through out the year so have the heaters on most of the time this seems to keep the air new and damp away. Think it's more the cars that are left for long periods that get the damp problems.

[Gary RH7]

You could always place these around the car inside your carcoon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LARGE-DEHUMIDIFIER-REUSABLE-MOISTURE-ABSORBER/dp/B00AZZB5UY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447176760&sr=8-2&keywords=large+silica+gels

[Facial Hair Optional]

Not a bad idea mate! The more I think about this Carcoon thing the more I think the reason it prevents mildew and damp may be just as simple as keeping the air moving, in which case a fan would help to some extent. So, I am gonna experiment with my portable air con unit set on the dehumidify setting and see what happens. I checked the leccy meter when it was running on that setting and it is very low usage and miles lower than when it is set to air con mode so it may be worth a punt. The biggest problem is that old garages like mine are not at all air tight so in effect I may be trying to dehumidify the whole flippin' planet!

Anyone any idea how to measure humidity in a room please so I can do a comparison?

[sanzomat]

Something to do with the difference between the reading on a wet bulb thermometer and a dry bulb if memory from college serves me well. I'm sure google will have the answer.

Actually now you've mentioned mold and mildew I'm starting to think those carbon filters might work. I can't see them lowering RH significantly but they should trap any mold spores so should prevent anything nasty from taking hold on the fabric parts.

One thing I do remember from college though is that things like dry rot thrive best in still air/enclosed spaces and don't need a great deal of moisture. The carcoon does provide the enclosed space but by keeping the air moving and keeping out any spores your timber shouldn't catch dry rot so morgans should be okay in one!

[benchmark51]

Not a bad idea mate! The more I think about this Carcoon thing the more I think the reason it prevents mildew and damp may be just as simple as keeping the air moving, in which case a fan would help to some extent. So, I am gonna experiment with my portable air con unit set on the dehumidify setting and see what happens. I checked the leccy meter when it was running on that setting and it is very low usage and miles lower than when it is set to air con mode so it may be worth a punt. The biggest problem is that old garages like mine are not at all air tight so in effect I may be trying to dehumidify the whole flippin' planet!

Anyone any idea how to measure humidity in a room please so I can do a comparison?

Use a hygrometer

http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Humidity

[Facial Hair Optional]

Actually now you've mentioned mold and mildew I'm starting to think those carbon filters might work. I can't see them lowering RH significantly but they should trap any mold spores so should prevent anything nasty from taking hold on the fabric parts.

That's exactly right Dave, the filters don't lower the RH (as far as I know) but they do stop the spores that will grow in a still air and damp environment from getting into the Carcoon. If you can dry the air a little, keep it moving around and stop the spores entering then that has to be good for the car's health I would think?

A decent mains mini dehumidifier can be bought on ebay for about £24.00 I am considering getting one and siting it in the cockpit under the cars waterproof cover to try and create some kind of drier mini environment for the car. Maybe add some of those 1kg bags a silica gel BM51 pointed out as well? If I could get a small oscillating fan in there too I reckon that might be a half decent approximation of a Carcoon! It's gotta be better than my normal damp garage. If you can see any downsides or think it may make things worse please let me know cos I am defo no expert here!

I guess the proof will be in the eating of the pud. Try it and see if it seems to work in other words, though how I'll be able to tell I'm not sure yet! I'll see if I can find a hygrometer as BM51 (too many Daves!!) mentioned.

[benchmark51]

Plenty of 'em

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hygrometer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=n2xCVrjGKcT3aO2qkdgI#q=hygrometer+maplin

[Facial Hair Optional]

Tell me about it - bloody thousands on ebay! Sick of trying to work out which is best value!! Mind is frazzled 

[benchmark51]

Maybe it would help to work out why the garage is damp?
Curing that should be the first step. Throwing cash at a recurring problem is daft.

[sanzomat]

I'm convinced that ventilation is the key. Putting a traditional cover over your car without air circulation might do more harm than good.

One thing I have noticed (since I'm planning to spend a bit of time in my MiL's garage over the winter) is that her garage smells much more musty since they replaced the traditional old up/over door (that had big gaps around it so very drafty) with a modern electric roller slat door that seals tight. Drafts means air changes which is a good thing!

Garages will always be a bit damp as they tend to be built with single leaf walls and no heating or ventilation. Often little attention is payed to things like dpm's so rising damp can also be an issue.

Mine at home is pretty good though as its integral and has habitable space over it so the outside wall is a cavity wall and the two other walls are inside walls so a bit of heat from the house is likely to percolate into the garage. We also keep a fridge out there which also generates a bit of background heat. A really cosy place for the GTM to sleep!

[benchmark51]

Ventilation is essential in buildings as is damp proofing.
I have breathable elasticated cover for a MX5 that happens to be a perfect fit for seven. Only for indoor use, but perfect for hibernating cars.

[Vindicator]

I always wipe a thin coat of oil or waxoyl on anything that's likely to corrode whether it's a car in storage or out on the winter roads. Easy enough to get off again in the spring. It won't help the mildew problems but at least the metal is protected.

[benchmark51]

Many moons ago during my apprenticeship, one of our customers had a fleet of Daimler hearses. they told us then that they always wipe the bodywork with paraffin damp cloths.

[Facial Hair Optional]

Maybe it would help to work out why the garage is damp?
Curing that should be the first step. Throwing cash at a recurring problem is daft.

Well the one at home aint too bad but sometimes rain gets in under the door, but another I use leaks from the wooden roof beams. Not my garage though so hard to fix that one.

[Facial Hair Optional]

I'm convinced that ventilation is the key. Putting a traditional cover over your car without air circulation might do more harm than good.

Garages will always be a bit damp as they tend to be built with single leaf walls and no heating or ventilation. Often little attention is payed to things like dpm's so rising damp can also be an issue.

Mine at home is pretty good though as its integral and has habitable space over it so the outside wall is a cavity wall and the two other walls are inside walls so a bit of heat from the house is likely to percolate into the garage. We also keep a fridge out there which also generates a bit of background heat. A really cosy place for the GTM to sleep!

That's true Dave re covers. If it's covered it should be breathable cover. However a dehumidifier under the cover keeps the air moving around and dry and so helps that problem.

You need to explain what dpm's means please mate (damp proof sumfinorother??). Re rising damp, ALL of the sites I've read for advice on storing a car say the same thing, lay down a plastic sheet on the floor to prevent damp rising, apparently it is the most common problem.

I've just discovered that heating a garage is the worst thing you can do UNLESS it's 24/7 because the warming/cooling cycle causes high levels of humidity apparently! It either needs to be cold (less moisture in cold air) or heated consistently ALL the time according to the experts. So a cosy place is good provided it's cosy ALL the time, if it warms and cools you will get condensation (so they say).

[Facial Hair Optional]

Ventilation is essential in buildings as is damp proofing.
I have breathable elasticated cover for a MX5 that happens to be a perfect fit for seven. Only for indoor use, but perfect for hibernating cars.

My home garage is naturally ventilated, ie it's 1960's built with a corrugated roof! Actually it's not as damp as I first thought either, if I can stop the rain coming in the front door on heavy downpours I think it will be fine and dry cos it doesn't look like it's getting in anywhere else.

Plus a nice breathable cover and either a small portable dehumidifier inside the cockpit and/or some big bags of silica gel (belt and braces - I'm taking no chances and it's not a lot of £££) and all should be hunky dory this Winter.

The other garage is not mine, sometimes leaks and has no power so not a lot I can do but cover the car and use silica gel bags I suspect.

[Vindicator]

May also be worth putting a couple of air bricks in the wall or drilling a couple of bricks and putting a vent cover over them.... Both easy and cheap solutions and should help to keep the air moving and flowing through the garage.

Ian

[benchmark51]

DPM - damp proof membrane ?

I had an old victorian house once and the wooden floor was rotten. Ripped it all out and excavated. Laid 6 inches of hardcore, added sand on top giving 2 inches of cover followed by a heavy duty plastic sheet(dpm). 4 inches of concrete levelled out and left to dry and finished with 2 inch screed. The surrounding walls were drilled and pressure injected with damp proof liquid, rendered with waterproof cement and finally plastered. Now you could store a car in there! Still needed ventilation though.

[Facial Hair Optional]

May also be worth putting a couple of air bricks in the wall or drilling a couple of bricks and putting a vent cover over them.... Both easy and cheap solutions and should help to keep the air moving and flowing through the garage.

Ian

As it happens Ian someone at some point in the past has made a catflap through the brickwork!! I was even thinking of using it as a vent port for the dehumidifier hose if I ever go that route - purrrrrfect!